Safe Speed Forums

I don't suppose it makes much difference either way, but I like indicators on the left as it means that your right hand has a full grip on the wheel at all times - unless changing wiper settings which I do as a lower priority task. The idea of switching the indicators while changing gear just doesn't quite seem right to me - I nearly always indicate, then change gear; I would have thought that your right hand would only be in the correct position to indicate when going straight ahead - any sort of turn and the hand is in the wrong place.

That said, when driving in the US or in Europe in a rental (from memory) the indicators/lights have also been on the left, which shows that you can get used to anything. In the US of course the right stalk can sometimes be the gear stick, but that doesn't matter because once drive is selected you don't need to touch it until parked again.

That is my entire point, US and European cars which are LHD have the indicator on the left, this makes sense in an LHD car.

It seems that RHD cars elsewhere in the world (in the far east at least, I'll have to ask some Australians where theirs are) have them on the right, and the UK is an anomaly, probably caused by it being cheaper to use the LHD indicator stalks right across europe.

But as you say, it all depends on what you are used to. I am currently trying to find out if they sold the Passat in Japan and if so did it have the indicators on the right side, then I can get myself a set. Other people probably prefer them on the left.

I'm glad we all agree that pulling to toggle full beam is a stupid idea though

By taking both hands of the wheel? I'm not sure how much control you would have even if you indicator hand remained in contact with the rim of the wheel.

No, I just poke the indicator stalk with one finger. Besides my Legacy is an auto so it's a non-issue in this car anyways

Well nearly everyone........... honestly, I quite like it.

AFAIK, UK cars used to have the indicator stalk on the right hand side, as did all the countries with Right hand drive. as part of europe, we have gradually moved over to LH indicators, while Japan hasn't.
For an 19month period I ran a 93Honda Prelude and had a Co. Pug 406. These had indicators, lights, windscreen wipers etc, all EXACTLY opposite each other. Never got 100% used to it.

I like the system of toggle forward to flash main beam, but push back to properly activate - it's better than the toggle forward for both that my current Mundano has.

Same here. At one point I had an Audi and wife had a Toyota, so every time we swapped cars was accompanied by loads of unintentional wiper-waving!

Whether it's come about by accident or design, I like the indicators on the left in a RHD. Right hand never needs to be distracted from steering, and also it's a good mechanism to encourage planning to ensure that the left hand always has an opportunity to operate the indicators between steering and changing gear. There's a little droplet of satisfaction to be had when for example negotiating a complex multi-lane roundabout and planning things such that the right moment to switch the indicators on is just as your hand is on the way from wheel to gear lever so it all happens in a seamless movement.

Anything which encourages and rewards a little planning is a good thing IMHO.

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Likewise. My Prelude and the wife's Rover have exactly the same stalks - Rover raiding Honda's parts bins for their rebadged jobs - but again on opposite sides. Don't know if it's a male/female thing but she doesn't seem to have much of a problem with the being mirror images of each other while I keep flashing the lights at people when it starts to rain. FWIW I'm more comfortable with the Honda set up than any other car I've had. Left hand stalk for wipers. Down for fast wipe until released, pull for wash/wipe and two roating control knobs - 3 position outer one (int-slow-fast) on the end and an inner one for the rear wiper (on and on+washer). Right hand stalk has the indicators, a 3 position (off-sides-dips) knob on the end for the lights and the usual pull toggle for full beam. I know a lot don't like the toggle for full beam but I can't find a seat postion that would mean either of us would miss the big blue light on the dash and leave them on by mistake, though I concede it could happen when flashing someone in daylight and not finding out it wasn't cancelled properly until you turn the other lights on when it gets dark. Would only be a second or two before we'd noice though.

I've had the push-full pull-flash system on a Sierra I had once and never really got on with it too well. On full beam the stalk ended up slightly further away than I was comfortable with. Probably more of an irritation than an actual problem, but I didn't like it. With the Honda (and the Rover when I remember to use the other hand) it's all fingertips without taking my hand off the wheel. One alternative that's not been mentioned was on a Triumph Acclaim (aka early 80's rebadged Honda) we once had when I was a kid. There was a flash button right on the very end of the stalk set within the rotating switch for the lights. Not seen it on anything since, but I guess real hondas from around the same time would have had it as well.

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I've got 3 pet hates here:
1) The muppets who put their rear fog lights on because it's dark (or who have forgotten to switch them off since last usage)
2) The idiots who drive with headlamps off (pilot lamps only), but the front fog-lamps on, and
3) Some of my biker kin who insist on driving on main beam in broad daylight, dazzling everyone via the door mirrors which just happen to be at bike headlamp level. It doesn't make you more visible, you tw*ts, it just makes it harder to focus on you and thereby accurately guage your distance and speed.

Bring back hanging.

Saw another "full beam man" in a Mondeo (again) on the M56 yesterday, in overcast but dry daylight conditions. Obviously full beam, not just badly adjusted dips

What is it with these people? Is it just sheer ignorance, or are they obnoxious, sod-you arseholes? Is there something confusing with the light switches on Mondeos?

Or maybe they are off-duty bikers of the "I use full beam when filtering in daylight" type

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

We have a Mondeo pool car at work. The blue main beam indicator is impossible to see in daylight, it's just not bright enough. For me it's also hidden behind the steering wheel, even with the wheel adjusted fully up.

Just thought I'd add my name to the list of people who HATE pull/pull stalks! My 807 has that arrangement, pull for flash, pull for dip, pull for main. Truly AWFUL! Worse still, because of its stupid new-fangled "CAN bus" electrical system, there is something of a lag (fraction of a second) between moving the stalk and the lights doing what you asked them to! As I spend a lot of my time on twisty unlit rural roads, I am constantly toggling between dip and main as I meet oncomming traffic. All I can say is that I apologise unreservedly to all those oncomming drivers who think I'm flashing them or I'm being a bit tardy in dipping my lights! The truth is, if I pull the stalk too far in my haste to dip the lights, I end up flashing them.

I think it has become popular in with manufacturers in recent years because the "CAN" electrical system lends itself to momentary switches rather than latching ones. The software sorts out what it was that you wanted. Also, I guess, momentary switches are cheaper!

My own car is much older and has the other sort of stalk with two distinct positions and a mechanical detent between them. The other great thing about this system is that I don't have to take my eyes off the road to see the blue tell-tale - I can feel the end of the stalk with my finger and it's in an obviously different position depending on whether its on dip or main.

So it's not just me then!!
My 307 is the same - EVERYTHING has a delay, even the rear wash/wipe.
I used to be able to flick the switch on/off on my 406 and get a single operation if that was all that was required.
Now I have to turn it on and wait until it moves before I turn it off.
If not, and there is not much moisture, the rear screen ends up smeared during two or three wipes.

Can you switch off the ignition, and have the drivers door open and your legs out before the radio goes off?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Like, you can't give a little 'toot' on the horn. If you just dib it, it won't work. computers! Bah!

Yes, the 307 has the same system "architecture" as the 807. They're a right pain in the $£$^& to fix too!

I've found another potentiall cause of headlights in daylight, though it probably only applies to my Legacy.

Normally, if you want to leave parking lights on overnight, you just leave your lights switched on and switch the car off. Not so on the Legacy.

Regardless of what your lights are set to, they switch off with the car, and there is a completely separate switch for parking lights.

As a result I've gotten into the lazy habbit of leaving the lights wherever when I stop driving. It's great when you stop at services and so on as there is no danger of forgetting to turn your lights back on, but less great when you get home late, then drive off the following morning with your lights on.

I can't think of many situations where I'd end up doing full beams like this though. Maybe certain Travelodge car parks

Nope, just the normal forward for main beam, back for dipped arrangement on the stalk.

I have the theory that an increasing number of people genuinely don't know when they are causing someone else an inconvenience or are being stupid. Such people are so pre-occupied with their own little world that their effect on others is utterly lost on them.
Take the driver who stops their vehicle right on the apex of a corner so that they can consult their map, talk on the phone etc. These people seem oblivious to the queue of vehicles attempting to pass them, and the havoc they are causing. I repeat, just my theory only.

I have to agree with your theory Rigpig, as arrogant as it makes me sound when whinging to friends/family about it

As for stalks, I have a Mondeo based car with standard push for mainbeam and pull for flash, and a Rover 600 which has pull to flash, pull to toggle (but with an audible click) and a decent light on the dash.

I feel both have good and bad points:

Cougar - I can feel as well as see which Lights I have operating - Good. When on full beam I occassionally miss the stock when trying to indicate - Not so good, though hardly fatal.

Rover - I always get the indicating bang on as the stalk is always in the same neutral position - Good. I sometimes select full-beam on when I only meant to flash - Possibly bad? Could be taken the wrong way by others.

For my birthday I got a Jag E-Type for the weekend which had the indicators on the right hand stalk. Took a few miles to get used to it, but it wasn't too difficult. I did wave my wipers on a roundabout when I got back into the Rover yesterday though.

I can see Lum's point about indicating whilst changing gear, but to be honest I think I'd prefer to be able to wipe the screen whilst down changing. Lum's theory would be my natural preference, but it's all too often that I get overtaken in the wet whilst slowing to turn off and I get a good gallon of dirty water sprayed over the windscreen completely obscuring my view.

In fact this happened yesterday on the M90 in heavy snow. I was in L1 with the vast majority doing about 30mph in slush when we were overtaken by 4x4 man in L2 through deep snow firing it over all the L1 traffic and across the central reservation and onto their traffic. Bloody prat. The car in front of me thought it would be a good idea to straddle both lanes to block the 4x4's stupidity but ultimately he was almost rammed as the 4x4 couldn't slow in time, and also it left the 4x4 showering me in slushy shite.

Anyway I digress - I'm a fence sitter on stalks

I do not like people who cannot operate their vehicle's systems though - especially ones which affect me!

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My sister learnt to drive in a car with RHS indicator stalk. However, when she drove my father's car after passing her test she would always indicate the wrong way, as she "thought it was up for left and down for right"!?
She also tailgates, does makeup whilst driving, had 7 bulbs out on her last MOT, took her car to the garage because "the washers have broken" (out of screen wash) and once filled her turbo-diesel with 40-quids worth of unleaded.

Easily the most dangerous driver/innattentive I have ever had the sheer non-pleasure of sharing a car with.

However, she "sticks to the limits" - as advertised by the sticker in her rear window.