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We keep being told that the market won’t crash as the demand here wouldn’t allow it too however I'm not so sure on this.

The demand only exists because prices are high and therefore profit is to be made. Surly if prices drop so would the demand, they coexist side by side.
Obviously a lot of it all comes down to negative equity and the market would be flooded with housing that buy to let owners would especially want rid of.

If the demand was so high then where are all the first time buyers, the market is infact critically short of them. It doesn’t matter how much demand they think there is, if the finance doesn’t exist there for people to buy homes, then there is in effect no demand.

Obviously this is in part what has partially caused the credit crunch, easy credit has ended along with the availability for mortgages to pay for the current prices of homes.
This also surly has affected confidence in the market already beyond help. People are now becoming unwilling to buy homes if they believe the prices will begin to nose dive.

A rocky period awaits.

dunno about "crash", although it's not out the question, but a period of stagnation/depreciation is likely. What may cause a crash is if nobody buys because they're expecting a crash, then voila, crash happens.

Secondly, a lot of people are playing at being have-a-go landlords, not appreciating letting property is a long term investment, with 1 or 2 places where the rent covers the mortgage. rising intrest rates/problem tennants will ruin these people, and add to the overall picture.

1st time buyers have been "out the loop" for a while now, and as years go on more of the market by % becomes those 1st time buyers that cannot afford to buy, so cruch point is inevitable. Plus, the top end of the market (£1m+), which the rest of the market usually follows, has been declining for a couple of years now, only the estate agents are playing it hush and giving people 'disappointing' estimates.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

I have never really understood the fixation that this country has with property and property prices. I know other countries find us a little odd in this respect.
Even on the telly there's programs about people buying places in the sun, the France, Cyprus (but never Croxteth or Tower Hamlets oddly), and others about property investment, purchase, improvement etc etc etc.
The latest one is something about middle class (oops, I've given Cooler some fuel there ) couples moving from the town where they've made their money to the country where they hope to buy their dream home and integrate with the local community. Yeah right! Be treated like a turd because you're pricing the locals out of the market more like
Houses are places to live, not works of art to be bought and coseted until the value goes up.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Well looking at the US version their housing bubble crashed because the believed lucratively of their market was built on a bubble of debt. When the market began to decline so did the profits. Houses dropped in value and the bubble exploded.
In the UK I believe the situation could be exasperated because the debt is greater, hence if prices start dropping the same will happen surly.

are you a fan of Le Corbusier? Or should I say, a fellow fan? He famously stated that "Houses are machines for living in"

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

The price of housing is primarily determined by the availability of money. NOT supply and demand for accomodation!

If the credit crisis bites hard, House prices will fall!

Mind I can hardly believe what is being said. over a million people struggeling with average (unsecured) debts of over £25 grand! What the hell do they spend it on?

Appart from my Morgage (which I paid off a couple of years back) the most I have ever borrowed was 5 grand back in 1983 to buy my van (and even then I was only comfortable doing so since I had enough to cover it in savings, it was business purchase and a Lease/lend deal was advantageous)

And the solution proposed! Oh we must do more to make credit available! Naughty banks tigtening up lending rules!

Oh look, that crackhead has real problems! Lets help him by giving him more crack!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Oh dear! That'll be us then!

Couldn't wait to get out of Manchester, then Mrs. Mole gets the chance of a job in (semi) rural West Cumbria and we grab it with both hands. Initially, I felt prety guilty about it for exactly the reason you describe but, after 8 years here, I've come to think that the problem isn't necessarily that simple.

For a start, the sort of place we were buying was the sort of price that wouldn't have attracted those locals least able to afford housing. Also, we do, at least live and work here - which means we pay Council tax and spend our money in the local economy - in fact, I get paid in Scotland and spend it in the local economy so that's maybe even better! Then there's the situation at Mrs. Mole's place of work which struggles to recruit peopel and which is under threat from two main problems:
1. The lack of enough population to justify its existence (it's a hospital) and
2. The problems it has recruiting people (laregly because of 1.)!
I have come to realise that all communities need a "critical mass" of people to support the necessary amenities and infrastructure. As another example, the village school that my daughter attends has 6 kids in her year. The schools also need kids if they are to continue to exist.

I also feel a bit better because by moving here and inflating the house prices (which I don't deny!) I have, at least removed some of the pressure on housing in Manchester. We've probably lost out overall by moving here. If we sold up tomorrow, I very much doubt we'd be able to afford our old house in Manchester!

Finally, as for being treated like a turd, I can honestly say I've never lived in such a friendly place!

What I DO have a problem with are second homes. These are often smaller and bought as run-down properties which are done up. These really do push prices up at the bottom end of the sector and create negative feelings amongst the locals (and rightly so, in my view)! Their owners contribute very little to the local economy but displace permanent residents from the area.

I think it's a complex problem and I freely admit that I might be part of it but there are advantages too!

The US made things worse by over building by 3 million more homes than they needed. Similar has been done here with new build flats but not to such an extent. The whole situation has been created by Gordon Brown and his greedy pensions grab. He made them uneconomic so people invested in other things. Property is the easiest. If price inflation is higher than the mortgage rate then it becomes self fueling as you can continually withdraw equity to pay the interest on the mortgage. The money supply has tripled in 10 years which is why house prices have gone up so much as well as there being increased household formation. The increased household formation is set to continue for some time so there is a strong upward pressure.

If you look at house prices and take out the effect of normal inflation then I think they haven't been rising anywhere near as fast as it seems plus after the last crash it took a long time to come out of recession and have prices rise again which is partly why there were so many boom years as there was a lot of catch up to do.

I think times are going to change so that home ownership will start to revert to being the preserve of the wealthy not the ordinary person. The trend for even transport costs to out of reach of the ordinary working person suggests where housing will be next. With banks being more risk averse then they will be more likely to lend to landlords with a track record rather than dippy first time buyers on 100% mortgages with credit defaults.

With ever increasing food prices and the likelihood that they will actually return to historic levels then obesity may be less of a problem

The flip side of the credit bubble is low wage inflation. Without access to credit wages would have to have increased by far more just to keep up with the cost of living. The govt already prop up poor paying employers with tax credits. Would it not be better to stick up the minimum wage to a sensible level eg £8 an hour rather than subsidising employers? They should have done it a few years ago before times were getting harder. It is too late now so they are going to have to keep the minimum wage low otherwise there will be a recession.

The 150,000 repossession figure has also been hyped beyond belief as only 22% of possession orders end up in repossession so we're actually looking at more like 30-35,000 which is not much above last years level of 27,000. Talk about scare mongering. If credit is that tight there isn't going to be anyone to buy them anyway so banks will have to start lending at some point even to start swapping properties they have taken back.

The one positive out of a potential crash will hopefully be a bonfire of 'real people property programmes' like this which drive me nuts.

Particularly the fact that noone ever seems to buy a house with an intention of just living there; they all seem to want to half-demolish it on day one. Mrs Theboy and I have left well alone since moving into Johnny Towers, the previous residents clearly had far better taste in decor than us, so we've left well alone!

And don't even get me started on second-homers....

Probably not.
If it did those ever-so-nice people busy buying property off owners in difficulty (at advantageous prices) would lose a packet.
I know one guy who purchases houses off such people, at around 40K lower than market, just for investment. Needless to say, I only "know" him....in a not-that-friendly way. He apparently rents them out to those in less-than-good circumstances. But then, the rent is paid by the benefits. A win-win-win situation. Apart from the state when they are re-sold later.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I was fortunate, I managed to get a housing association flat, the scheme was a development of 5 blocks, 1 block would be private tenants, who would pay more than the HA tenants rates but less than commercial rates.

I see no reason to move at present, I'm single in a one bedroom flat, to rent commercially is less than a mortgage so there is no point moving into commercial renting, also a mortgage that I could sensibly afford would get me a one room studio apartment the size of my current living room.

I've never understood the fascination with owning property.

a lot of friends (also single) have made the leap onto the property ladder and can only afford the mortgage, they have no social life or slack if things get worse in life.

Not for me...

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

It is indeed, and I wasn't really aiming any criticism because I'm on the fence about this one. Ask my very country-person mother-in-law, a very placid and aimiable person all told however, and you'd get a very different response

It all depends on whether we accept that the 'Vicar of Dibley" country lifestyle actually exits, and if so is it because of the local people born into those communities. This of course is what most 'townies' moving to the country are looking to buy into lets face it; nice house, winding lanes, the sound of church bells in the distance, a winters walk and pop into the local pub for a pint of Scrunges Old Particular by a roaring log fire.
Does it exist? If so is it because of the locals alone? Are townies spoiling it? I don't know, but what I do know is that society changes and perhaps this is just one change that market forces enforce upon us.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Aye, I know what you mean. I was talking to my daughter's piano teacher the other evening. She lives on a typical local smallholding round these parts - 95 acres not much use for growing anything other than sheep and a few cows. I aksed her if it was still possible to make a living from such a place and she told me that it was "technically" possible - but only if they accepted the lifestyle of their ancestors (no holidays, TV, convenience food, computers etc) The trouble was that her kids mixed with other kids from further afield and saw things on TV that they wanted. They can make ends meet well enough but only as a result of doing other jobs besides farming. She's happy enough at that. Not better or worse, just "different".

In our village, the pub has closed down again (not for the first time since I've been here). I don't know why. I don't think the village population is shrinking and it's a perfectly nice pub.

I've a feeling that (other than in extremely isolated communities like the Amish in America) a lot of the change we see would have happened anyway and probably isn't that much to do with immigrant townies. The lack of a community social life "Vicar-of-Dibley"-style is, I think also true of very densely populated urban areas as well these days.

I live in a village.
The first thing the "townies" do when they move in is to complain, about everything. Farm smells are a favourite ex-towny complaint. Then they moan about the pubs clientele wandering about in a daze, then they moan about the cost of food in the pub. They don't use the local shop, too expensive. When it (pub and shop) close down, they moan about that. The parish councils are usually packed with ex-townies who change the rustic street lights for those yellow sodium things and then complain that their mobiles don't work, after having turned down planning permission for a comms mast 5 miles away because of "health problems".
Then we get street sweeping machines every other day, because their cars are getting mud on them from the roads (farms again).
Their children never go to the village school, they go to a public school 8 miles away, which "mama" drives them to in her disco, along with another 4 who do the same route every day. That's 5 vehicles driving 5 children to the same school. The village pond gets fenced off because it is a risk to their children, who never go out anyway.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I grew up in a village that's now second-homer hell and I now live in a village that isn't. The difference in friendliness/atmosphere is remarkable.

I think I agree with that Mole. There's probably just a little bit of the 'romantic' inside of me that wishes there were some highly desirable things in life (such as an idylic country lifestyle) that just cannot be bought into, regardless of how much money one has, but are acquired through ones background and birthrites. Someone will doubtless come up with some, but I can't think of anything. I do however recall hearing of a group of businessmen who wanted to pay for a visit to a live frontline warzone, presumably so they could say that they'd seen it for real. Don't know whether they succeeded, probably not through our MOD anyway, but it sounded horribly voyeuristic and not a little bit disrepsectful as well.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

House prices, hmmm, can't say I'm that worried/bothered really. For years "home owners" or should that be "morgage payers" have been crowing about how much there house is worth and how much they paid for it and how much they have made in profit. Oh yer, firstly please may I see your figures and secondly once you have sold it, where are you going to live exactly???

When these people are crowing to me about how much lolly their house has made they only say it was bought for x and now is work x +2. No mention of stamp duty, interest, improvements, maintainance and whatever else costs are involved in home ownership. Anyway, if one buys a stockmarket based investment, the first thing that they are told is that investments can do down as well as up and past perfromance is no indication of future earning. But property investers appear to think that they have this god given right to make a profit, and a hansom one at that.

I can't afford a house and have long since stopped worrying about it. But people, financial advisers included, kept telling me to invest in a buy to let. I point out to them that I don't have enough dough. Oh don't worry they counter, get and interest only morgage. Balls I say, if I can only afford an interest only morgage, what happens if the boiler fails or the roof bows off? I'll tell you what will happen, I'll be having to sell a kidney, that's what.

And another thing. Food prices. For ages I have worried that when I go to work in the morning I will be issued with my P45 because the £85 we were getting for a tonne of milling wheat and the £3 we were getting for a bag of spuds just wasn't paying the bills, but the tables have turned. Our commodities are now in demand and the prices have become more healthy. Great. But wait just a minute. This is bad appartantly. Food should be dirt cheap, so should oil, so should clothes and so should everything except houses. Apparantly it is good to have houses that are too expensive for many people to afford but bad when just about any other commodity is sold at anything higher than cost of production.

For every looser in the propert market there will be a winner, so what's all the fuss about?

I've been doing a lot of reading into this lately and I think there really is the possibility of a much wider economic meltdown.

From what I understand, the whole credit crisis so far has only been caused by the US property market fall out which is set to keep snowballing. Apparently theres a tsunami of home foreclosures coming to hit America this summer which could exasperate the credit situation.

Bare in mind the problems facing the UK banking system already, has only been attributed so far to the fall out from AMERICA. If property around Europe is set to nose dive in the same manner, (in Spain the situation is starting to look just as bleak), we're in for some very choppy waters indeed.

Well, the view from the top of many of the fells round here might just fall into that category! Doesn't matter how much money one has, you get the same view as everyone else! Of course, I need to be careful what I'm saying because some rich git is bound to build a place on the top of one so he gets the view and spoils everyone else's!

I also don't think there's any such thing as an idylic country lifestyle either! I can see lots of people whose lifestyles LOOK idyllic but there's usually a lot of hard work and some sacrifices behind them. We still have freinds in Manchester who come and visit us and say things like "...but what do you do when you want to go to the theatre"? or "...but you must have eaten in all the restaurants round here after your first week"! or "but how can you live 40 miles from a motorway"?! or "7 miles to the nearest takeaway"?! They're all fair points, I guess. On the other hand, we go down there and see their kids playing in a garden not big enough to spread a picnic cloth on. They can JUST about fit her Fiesta on the drive but he has to park his Mazda on the road. They must feel like battery hens living where they do!

There is only ONE winner in the property price boom..................the bugger that sells it to you! OK, you MAY gain a bit if you're lucky, but......better get ready to help your kids buy theirs...........

I bought my house years ago and haven't moved. My money is in the Bank.......

Do I care what happens to the "housing market"?

NAH!!!!................