Safe Speed Forums

I Suppose the riding School must have some kind of Insurance? I have never claimed for it, but It was something I heard.

_________________
RoADA Member -GOLD 2008
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

Ah I see now! yes the riding school should have public liability insurance to operate legitimatly. You should have claimed from them.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

I doubt it. Sounds very strange.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Wasn't sure If It could have been one of those old 'Country Side Laws'

_________________
RoADA Member -GOLD 2008
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

Canter or gallop on a metalled road !
Horses should never be made to canter or gallop on the road, if it doesnt knacker their shoes it will most certainly knacker their legs!

Are you talking about the horses shoes or hooves? The shoes are there to protect the horses hooves from the damage hard ground can do to them. If their hooves are still getting damaged the shoes most likely need replacing (every 4 - 6 weeks, whether they do much road work or not. A horses hooves grow continually so they outgrow their shoes.) or they dont fit right.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

I've been to Old Trafford on match days and the coppers are sat on horse and 67,000 fans can't make them bat an eye lid. This stuff about horses having off days is rubbish. I could have an off day and it's good bye licence, the same should be applied to horses.

It can't possibly be beyond the wit of man (we've flown to the moon remember) to devise a test for horses and their riders to sort out the ones that can use the roads and the ones that should stay at home.

I'll say yet again, I don't go out to hurt or up set anyone when I drive, no matter how big or small the machine is I'm using.

I was talking about the effect on a horse's legs in general, being forced to go on a metalled surface when they were designed for use on softer ground! I think even just walking on a road, the extra weight of a human doesn't do their legs any good. Horses don't exactly 'trip the light fantastique', they are naturally heavy footed.

Adam

Those horses are selected very carefully - and trained. The final selection process includes (or used to include) setting off an explosive charge within feet of them - and a boom charge within yards. Only those that were rock steady pass for such duties. The average driver not knowing of this would be more likely to react like the desk-jockey in the black-and-white in the film Die Hard.

It takes thousands of pounds and YEARS to get those police horses trained to that point. They are also what we call in the industry 'cold bloods'. Specially bred/selected for their very docile unflappable nature. There are many many different breeds of horses, all with differing amounts of 'skittishness' for want of a better word, and a horse would never intentional harm a human, whether trained not to or untrained. And trust me, they are not robots, they are animals that do think for themselves, they do have off days.
You obviously have not the experience of deaing with animals other than meeting them when driving your car or riding your bike. NOI

Oscar,

Horses legs are built to carry a massive body weight over anything that obstructs them in flight, hedges ditches etc, a walk on the road is hardly gonna stress their legs as much as jumping a five foot high wild brush and landing on solid baked earth. They are not as heavy footed as you seem to think, though it seems that way when one stands on your foot!
They may not be designed for carrying humans but modern horses are bred for that ability and durabilty. They are not hard done by, most horses will let you know if they disagree to carrying humans.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Oh puhleeeze This is the most desperate application of 'whatever applies to X should also apply to Y' logic I think I've ever seen.

Oh - and horse suffer from PMT too - at least mares do...

Of course, they arent robots, they think for themselves and they have hormones!
They are living creatures Adam.L. They are animals of "fright and flight", spook them and they take flight, I have yet to come across a horse that would knowingly, purposely hurt a human, even though they are very capably of causing death, and do, it is rarely intentional.
I think maybe you have seen or had a bad experience with a horse or come across a couple of riders that has pissed you off and decided to tar us all with the same brush. Sorry if that is the case, but tarring the majority with the minority is unfair!

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Quote:- They are not hard done by, most horses will let you know if they disagree to carrying humans.
_________________
Probably why so many are so skittish when they are amongst traffic!

Sister-in-law's horse gives you a pretty scary ride - if scary rides are what you are after. Of course they can spook easily and they sense a nervous rider as well. They also get nervous and sense nervousness on the part of the rider if a car is too close, revs hard or whatever. Hence the need for caution.

If you look at a racing form book ... horses are bred and potential is forecast from the ancestry .. so in theory - race horses are genetically engineered very loosely speaking.

But these beasts are intelligent, and train well, and those police nags are very well trained indeed.

No.....horses get skittish when they feel frightened or threatened. Cars and other vehicles can sometimes appear frightening to animals. Come to think of it, just about anything can appear frightening to them. I used to ride race horses for a living and one particular horse hated the white line across the finish line at Worcester, used to jump the damn line watching it closely with its head between its knees! Lol!
Also depends on past experiences, and past experiences for rider too. A nervous rider isn't gonna give a horse much confidence is he/she? Usually those nerves come from past experiences. Horses can sense danger and they sense nervousness from the rider.
If a horse weighing over half a tonne disagreed with being ridden, it would not be ridden! You think a puny human would be any match for it?

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

You obviously have not the experience of deaing with animals other than meeting them when driving your car or riding your bike. NOI


well appart from being a dairy farmers son, going to agricultural college, working with dairy, beef, sheep, in door and out door pigs, my experience with livestock is limited

we also do livery on the farm I work on and there are 2 horses on that yard that should have been shot. 1, for no apparent reason kicked it's owner breaking her ribs and the other regularly buckaroos riders off, breaking wrists in the process. Were these farm animal it would be against any common sense to keep them around. Dad has a bull, he's no trouble as long as he's given some respect. Horses are completely unpredictable.

If a horse is not fit to be on the road, leave it at home.

Well Adam.L., you may have been to college etc like you say but you dont seem to have much knowledge of how a horses instincts work. Regarding the horse that regularly throws its rider - has he/she considered having its back and pelvis checked, fitting of the saddle, fitting of the bridle, fitting of the bit in horses mouth, is anything causing horse pain or distress.......plenty of reasons. As for the horse kicking its owner and breaking her/his ribs, for no apparent reason , had this done myself. If the horse kicked out hard enough to break ribs, she/he was obviously standing a few paces away, was she walking up behind the animal? Thats what happened to me, didnt realise stallion had not seen me as I approached it, did everything I should of done, walked to the side towards his quarters rather than directly behind him, his eyes must have been elsewhere! I made one big mistake though.....I put my hand on his quarters before using my voice to alert him, bang, next thing I knew I was in an ambulance. The stallion had a reason.....he was unaware I was there, he had no where for 'flight', his instincts kicked in, entirely my fault. There is always a reason......they dont get skittish for no reason, they dont show their hooves through no reason, they dont throw riders for no reason. Try studying a bit more horse psychology, you may learn a little more about them and the reasons for their actions.
I do agree with one thing in your post and have repeated it over and over again in this thread......horses arent robots, they are living creatures. You cannot predict fully the actions of a living creature, therefore they are unpredictable. Congratulations for that.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Besides, this has all gone a little off topic, with regards to your first post, a test for riders is available, a proficiency test. It is not practical to test horses, they are unpredictable and what might not frighten it in a controlled atmosphere, may frighten it in a real life situation or under different circumstance and even a different rider! Neither is it fair nor practical to restrict or ban or whatever because of a small minority. There is a small minority of drivers that make riding my bike much more hazardous than normal, but I am aware that thats what it is - a small minority, education rather than draconian measures mate, isnt that what we all want?

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Of course a horse will respond to different riders/circumstances - see it all the time in horse racing - when we go to the races on occasions Horses are sensitive as well - and will react if they feel fear or even "smell fear".

"Education before draconian measures" Yes - agreed! We all talk about education and some glibly about re-tests for drivers as if this can be implemented without much thought.

We need to educate and do so in a way which is manageable. Retesting drivers as pointed out 6 months ago would not be practical given the numbers involved and shortage of examiners. This has been highlighted in Manchester - back in September, Manchester folk were booking up driving tests in Carlisle because examiners are in short supply. This was headline news in their paper at the time.

We mooted the idea of periodic assessment with a carrot to motivate towards learning as alternative, workable short term solution until we get more examiners if we go the retest route. Seems daft that cycling/horse proficiencies and driving test are tested once and never re-assessed.

Seems even dafter that these proficiency tests (which I remember taking at about age 11 for both bike and a horse) are not compulsory either.

My professional life is appraised very regularly. I suspect a lot of others are too. Driving/cycling/riding are lifetime skills which are constantly developing and are skills which do need some kind of appraisal because we are in charge of something mechanical (and animal in case of a horse). Driving and riding assessments should be regarded in the same way as those professional assessments which are part and parcel of professional lives - all of which have some kind of carrot to motivate to aspire to reach potentials.

We also need something to ensure that people have proper medicals and sight tests as well. I admit I have a personal bias on this - but I know what this family unit really went through once - one of reasons why I have neither time nor patience for drunk, drugged or tired driver, biker, cyclist. In the case of drink - legislation on this is well known and so no real excuse for it. In the case of drugs - read prescription labels and illegal substances - nuff said! Tired road users? - Well - I know when I am tired and feel ill - so not really that good an excuse for not being aware! The assessment I have in mind would cover this requirement too.

I agree wholeheartedly with profiecency tests for the rider, education like we both agree, but that isn't going to solve the problem that Adam.L. seems to on about. Test a rider all you like, if the horse is gonna bolt, there is little the rider can do, profiency tested or not. A rider is no match for an animal of that size and strength.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.