Safe Speed Forums

now i know this one comes up time and time again with reference to near misses and slip road merging etc. (one of paul's favourites i know)

i think most would have a hard time disagreeing with the principle.... but i thought i'd start a brainstorming thread to clarify it.

what if anything does the HC currently say?
what if aything should it?
is it mentioned during normal tuition?
is it mentioned during pass plus?

should we really try and make it a generic case? i certainly think twice about doing it but often find i've backed off, had a good look at the slip road and decide to proceed, knowing in this instance its not going to cause a problem.

can it be encouraged/discouraged by road layout?
are there / should there be any lane markings / signage that would help in this hazardous zone?

as per brainstorming, not really thought this through.. go wild.

I worry about dual lane slip roads for which both lanes end when joining the main carriageway. It’s not uncommon to have 3 drivers abreast jostling for position to occupy just the 1 lane.
Brainstorming: I reckon it would be better to have these types of dual slip roads merge into one lane just before it merges onto the main carriageway such that much of the jostling is finished before joining traffic at motorway speeds. ‘Keep right’ arrow type road markings could be used to encourage it, or lane 1 of the slip road could be converted to an emergency lane for use as a potential escape route.

This would go a long way to eliminating the need for the infamous slip road traffic lights.


Another idea would be signs saying “put your foot down” to encourage drivers to join traffic already on the main carriageway with lower differential speeds. It shocks me to watch drivers slowly join motorway traffic, even though they join from long downhill slip roads That alone will go a long way to eliminating slip road overtakes (you can trust me on that )

Very interesting!

I need to think about it.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I would like to see people think much more about matching thier entry speed on to a major road , But don,t ban overtaking as I often find slow drivers and lorries preventing me from merging at the main carriageway speed.

Two abreast is bad news, It just needs better planning by the drivers.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

ooops.... the no overtaking was aimed at vehicles on the main carraigeway.

i.e. if in L2 expect someone in L1 to need to pull out to avoid a slip road incident! (thats my understanding of the principle paul likes to state anyway)

hand't even considered the 2lane slips which yes are silly when they end in a single exit point.

my other thinking is if this is such a great overiding principle why not make it law, or at least documented recomended behaviour via the HC. but then i do it when i consider it safe and wouldn't really like to be suddenly breaking the law for doing so.

Being overtaken while in the inside lane when someone is trying to merge from an on slip (or even when they aren't) is one of my bug bears. Due to this behaviour my car was hit the other year. I had left a gap in front for a car to merge in then some berk from the right hand lane over took me and pulled right into it! Silly sod in the corsa that was merging decided to carry on and rearrange my front wing instead of stopping, further compounding the issue. I also find if I am in the right hand lane and leave a gap for someone to move across if I get stuck overtaking around that point then there will be some berk right up my bumper getting annoyed because I am deliberately leaving a gap for an inside lane person to move across if needed. I also notice not many people seem to grasp what I am doing and the space I am leaving for them to use if needed.

What I think would really help, especially on motorways would be a count down to an on slip merging into the carriage way so that you have some time to move out of the way to make things easier if possible. At the moment you only see the merge sign at the last possible moment and as not all junctions have an on and an off, or the same distance between an on and off it is difficult to tell when it is coming up.

Longer onslips which use more of the hard shoulder would also be a good idea. The on slip around the M6 Toll is particularly good as there is a good 500 yards or more for merging. Some, such as Keele services and junction 16 are very short, and very tight. Going north bound from 15 is always entertaining as you have to zoom round like a maniac to get up to 60 ish before you merge with the inside lane. It is very tight and even in a decent car you notice the G forces! Gawd knows what it is like in some asthmatic bouncy car - it must be a nightmare!

Exactly. There are a lot of unplanned lane changes around slip roads and if you are alongside you are in the line of fire.

If you are alongside you bloody well should be overtaking. There is NO other reason to choose to be alongside another vehicle at all. (I think! )

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

ahh, OK, crossed wires.

edit: although drivers merging at low speeds will amplify the problem


I do try to apply common sense in that situation. I check for traffic merging from slip roads when I’m passing entry slips. If no traffic, then there’s no problem. If there is traffic and I’m in lane 2, I will endeavour to leave an escape route for the driver in lane 1. However, this is a bit trickier then trying to accommodate speed limited trucks (and slow drivers - why???) whilst in heavier traffic as I don’t want to suddenly scrub off so much speed potentially leading to the domino effect/shunts. I would hope that merging drivers use the emergency lane if need be instead of blindly forcing themselves on the carriageway regardless but I know that doesn’t always happen, so I tend to put my foot down and pass quicker, even if it means me tailgating for a little while. I don’t know if that’s the correct thing to do but it’s worked out OK so far, but I’m open to suggestion.

The official DMRB (Design Manual for Roads and Bridges) no longer recommends the two-lane slip where the centre line just disappears once you reach the actual merge point. Either the two lanes should merge into one before reaching the main road (which can be seen at a few locations on the new eastern section of the M60) or, for the busiest merges, the two slips should join some distance apart separated by a "tiger-tail" island.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Excellent!
These engineering schemes are much more effective than any speed camera

although you can bet than any nearby speed camera will get the (statistical) credit for making the road safer

interesting.... i find merge signs aren't common anyway.
what would the countdowns look like? what would they mean? and what would the HC say about them i wonder?

not sure if there is one at m40 J14, which is northbound entry only so no off slip to give you warning.. on a LH bend with j15 only 1/2mile down the road.
(map)
have seen a number of near misses (and one hit) with people trying to get in lane oblivious to the merging traffic.

similarly hairy case on the a5 west near atherstone (i think) where the DC goes over a brow at which point a completely unannounced on-slip appears... i've looked several times but no merge sign... what there is however is a road narrows (?) type sign warning tht the DC is going down to one lane... so people move to L1 at the crest in preparation.... oh and then you hit a roundabout
(map)

not great road design.