Safe Speed Forums

This probably sounds a bit strange and probably doesn't apply to using mirrors but did you know that when you quickly change the position you are looking quickly the mind automatically switches off your vision in between the two positions. This means that if you quickly look up and down a road you will not see anything in between. So you should always either pause when looking at a position or move your eyes slower.

This is true, don't scan the road too quick or you can easily miss a vehicle.

Steve.

Yes. This is probably because the motion blur effects make the brain decide that the 'image' isn't worth processing. As a subtle variation on the same idea it may be that it simply takes too long to interpret the fast moving image (as it appears on the retina) and the processing simply isn't complete when the eye comes to rest.

(If this discussion develops, we should probably split it off to a new thread.)

And stevematt.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'm very interested in this. Over the last few years I have had maybe 3 'near misses' all at junctions or roundabouts where I have wanted to join traffic from stationary position or slow speeds. I've made my mind up that all is clear, have started to go and realised that all is not clear and a sharp stop ensues. Not a major problem I suppose.

Its worrying though as I certainly 'looked but did not see' . How can you do this when your system is normally so effective? The simple thing would be to conclude that I was not paying attention. End of story. However whilst I may have been tired or not as focused as I should have been, I've been wondering since if something else happened, because these occurances are so unusual.

I enjoyed visual cognition at uni although can't remember that much, but have tracked down a possible area of interest, try:
http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/djs_lab/overviewCB.html

I suspect there is something in this particularly in failing to integrate information after saccades (the small eye movements we make when reading a line of text for example -not a smooth single movement but many short movements from one point to another). Maybe there is more research out there in relation to this and driving.

Anyway, the fact that we may miss things even though they should be plainly visible adds to our knowledge that most accidents are caused by inattention and confirms the need for caution when assuming someone has seen us.

edit: this link is even better: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/inattentionalblindness.html

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"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

I think certain places can affect this, I'm busy tonight (and most of the weekend) but I will post up a picture of the junction out of my estate. There is nothing remarkable about it, and I doubt that any photo will show a problem, however I have noticed that I miss things in the left hand (vehicles approaching from the right) lane quite easily. (now I've noticed it I do spend longer checking)

I noticed a little while ago that my wife did the same (ie went pull out, noticed other vehicle just in time and stopped) and I asked if she had noticed doing this previously and she confirmed it had happend on a number of occasions.

I have asked in passing a number of my neighbours if they had notcied it and out of five, three said yes (they had definately noticed it) one said no and one was a maybe (it may have happened but perhaps not frequently enough for it to register too deep).

It's quite strange as the junction is open with good visability. It may be something to do with the buildings near by together with the road combining to hide certain shapes or colours perhaps, I don't know.

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

Have you eliminated windscreen A pillars?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I had not thought about it until you mentioned it, but for me it is not a factor, I am not seeing things (or having to do a double take) that in the middle of the drivers window. I shall ask my wife later, but we are talking about multiple vehicles.

It's a good point in terms of taking the photo, perhaps I should do this from the drivers seat? (only with my SLR not my camera phone as that would be illegal )

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

This is a facinating topic. I wonder if there would be any milage in actually researching problems at specific areas like Gopher's example and if a common cause is found, actually engineering it out of the network? I suppose that would be too interlectual for the powers that be though...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I've been having the same problem this week particularly! I have had 2 near misses in exactly the same place and under the same conditions and I am beginning to wonder what is wrong with me! The exit from work exits onto a two lane road which is very close to another road which people can turn in from. You have to look out for traffic opposite also using the entrance. I have pulled out a little to see down the two lane road for approaching vehicles from the left, checked to my right about vehicles turning in and then checked again that the two lane road is still clear. On pulling out I then see another vehicle has appeared from my right. I am beginning to think that I am doing the obs in the wrong order and that I should in fact check to my right, check left more briefly and check to my right again more thoroughly before pullling out as the left hand approach has longer to get close to me than the right hand approach. The long obs to the left are probably what is causing it. Luckily the road is wide and those turning in can always see when there are vehicles waiting to turn out. It is very disconcerting when you start to move off and see a vehicle nearly opposite you that has turned in and this is the first time you have seen it

Ok this is an image of the view looking right when waiting on the junction to come out of the estate I live on.

As I said before completely un-remarkable, and seemingly open with uninterripted view of the road. I do wonder why people are having near misses or having to do a double take to see cars approaching from this direction.

I think in future I will take more note of the type and colour of vehicles as they appraoch and make some sort of evaluation as to their visibility.

[/img]

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

This is almost certainly because you are, for a while, literally on a "head on" course with traffic on the main road a few car lengths before you emerge. As such the brain will register it as stationary and not see it at subsequent glances.

I'd also suggest that the vehicles parked on the pavement may be having a masking effect on the traffic on the road. That's not to say that the traffic is actually BEHIND or hidden by the parked vehicles, but maybe because of the approach angle its difficult to distinguish between parked and moving vehicles?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

That's exactly my best guess too. I've been rooting around trying to find some research to back up the idea, but no luck at all.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think the "dead" area is the distance between the bollard in the centre of the road up to the street lamp on the right.

I think Roger could be right, and will try to see if this is the case (maybe difficult because I am become more observant and may kill the effect).

I'll also see if type or colour can have an effect (small grey car as opposed to large red 4x4)

Cheers

Paul

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

Can I suggest standing facing away from the problem area and looking in a mirror? I'd raise the mirror for 2 seconds at a time and never study the scene in the mirror.

Two reasons:

a) the reverse of the image might get the brain processing afresh.
b) the mirror image won't be there as long for the brain to study and understand, so the effect in question might last longer.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ok, I will give it a go, I'm expecting my neighbours to start giving me a wide berth when they see me in future

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

Yes, I forgot to mention that you'll need a lifelike Tony Blair disguise too. (Kill two birds with one stone.)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

There was some not long ago. Didn't MCN mention it? It was to do with bikes approaching and how people couldn't see them.

If you know the name of the phenomenon I can have a root around on science direct.

As a biker, I'd use the word "frightening!"

But in all seriousness, again only a thought, but could the parked red car immediately to the left of the lamppost tell your brain that there is a vehicle there, but you know it's not moving and so your brain also masks out the fact that there is actually a moving car coming along?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Sorry. If it has a name, I don't know it.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Isn't it called "looming"?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus