Safe Speed Forums

We've all been here long enough to know Paul's motives are pure. Please reread his opening post again and give a little latitude. I am confident all will come clear soon - and that you will find he's anywhere but on the bandwagon.

Not at all. I learned long ago that to win you have to think like your enemy. Go with the flow. It'll get better, I promise.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

First they came for the 4x4s, and I said nothing...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

No! I find the 2.0 litre engine in my Clio entirely sufficient!

If the majority of urban 4x4s weren't bought by those who wish to bully and intimidate on the road, or at the very least want to be "overly assertive" then I would welcome them.

Is this prejuduce helpful on the road? Of course not, each car must be treated on its own merits.

4x4s are never going to be banned, so I really wouldn't worry.

Now that's one h*ll of an assumption, and suggests the sort of mindset that allows Matthew Hopkins-esque witch-hunts to thrive.

Your feeling intimidated doesn't mean that the other driver wishes to bully and intimidate. From the plethora of tailgaters and "cutter-uppers" I have to deal with every day, I suspect that there are more drivers of other types that wish to bully and intimidate than there are of 4x4s. However, because of your mindset, you notice it more when a 4x4 is driven agressively. Try chilling out a little and being objective rather than letting the hype rule your judgement.

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Will

I wouldn't say I feel particularly intimidated, because being a defensive driver if there is a potential conflict I will quickly back down, but that goes for any car on the road. I would rather be late, then dead.

My views on 4x4 drivers does not influence my behavoir on the road. There are courteous off-road drivers about! But too many aren't, and its impossible to come up with percentages but its merely based on my observations, both being a driver - and a passenger in 4x4s, of which I am somewhat regularly with different people. All of whom laugh when a smaller car gives way to them when really, the smaller car had right of way.

OK. So the problem has become: "Why are the image and status reasons good reasons?"

That's because the reasons split into three main groups:

- Practical reasons - no one can argue with those.
- Intimidation - no one can justify that, but we can say it's rare or non-existant (assuming it is; I believe it is).
- Image and status reasons - the nub.

Image and status reasons are good and worthy because:

- we need a society of individuals, free to express themselves through their own choices. (The alternative is low achievement and blandness)
- expressions of status are a major driver of our market economy (People create wealth in order to be seen as successful.)
- more?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I agree with Paul.

What car (one only) do I need? Probably something like a second hand Focus diesel. What have I got? Two flashy high performance cars (one a 4x4) Why? I like cars and motoring and can afford it. There is no other reason.

P.S. I also have cherished registration numbers which, of course, are completely pointless. Should these be banned on envy grounds as well as 4x4s?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

So perhaps an effective counter is:

'The well dressed man wears a Range Rover...'

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

As I said to Jamie Duff in a previous thread, its perfectly possible for someone to object to something that is seen as expensive without being envious of it.

I merely object to the "less then wholesome" reasons that are often the real motives behind choosing a 4x4 over other cars. I have no desire at all to see them banned or curtailed.

As off-road machines some are staggeringly good. When Clarkson went up that mountain in one I was in awe, the Discovery(is that right?) was is a phenominal bit of kit for going off-road.

But I still standby my thinking that many are bought to give drivers more road presence for the wrong reasons, to give them the edge into making other drivers back down, even if this is often only done sub-consciously.

FWIW I could go out and buy a luxury 4x4 today, its not that Im envious because I cant afford one

My friend's two-wheel drive Fiat does a pretty good off-road job; that is when he deliberately drives off road, and not when he loses control!

[quote="Capri2.8i

As off-road machines some are staggeringly good. When Clarkson went up that mountain in one I was in awe, the Discovery(is that right?) was is a phenominal bit of kit for going off-road.

But I still standby my thinking that many are bought to give drivers more road presence for the wrong reasons, to give them the edge into making other drivers back down, even if this is often only done sub-consciously.

quote]

Any vehicle can be good of road - depends on type of road - old bloke who'd spent most of his life in African Bush said once to me when i said " great machine out there -land rover" - it not knowing where you can go - it's knowing where you CAN'T go thats the secret.

Like Capri - i notice that when confronted by a van of similar size or a hgv, a lot of 4X4 drivers back down.
Of course this sort of behavioyr is not helped by the ad for one


"it gets you respect" - whatever that is suppossed to mean - but i suspect the wrong thing to the wrong people.

Like JT - i suspect - today 4x4 - and when these are banned, what next -

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yep exactly. Im not saying it applies to everyone or that a new 4x4 driver suddenly starts cutting people up and tailgaiting very aggresively. No its more subtle then that, its using the "presence", and "impact" of the vehicle to try and make others give way.

Capri - finding this more and more by ordinary car drivers on Mini islands - they approach from the left , trying to give the impression that they have not seen you - (wiser to assume that they have not) and when you slow down ,unsure of whether they have seen you or not , accelerate accross your front, leaving you to stop - now getting into habit of covering horn ( to advise of presence) and brake (just in case),and approaching in lower than normal gear ( to give me edge in case they move with me half way accross)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Been looking at some initial posts again - unstopable - whatever the weather - whoa - i drive a FWD medium family estate - 28 years ago i had a similar vehicle - Austin Maxi , 1750 --we moved from Cleveland to Fife in February - as we passed Newastle -roads were closing - we could not go back --we hit the outskirts of Edinburgh , 5 hours later - laden , we had picked up a passenger, van went off road - 7 hours (normal time 2/3 hours) we hit fife - standard car - some years later i went to Africa - we drove FWD vans in the bush --no mods - just a question of skill.So why do they need an unstopable vehicle - all are - its a question of knowing capabilities.
And then , a year or two later -snow hit Fife - nothing moved - except my self maintained Maxi - cars would not start - mine did - roads not sanded - so what - .
Nowadays i drive a much maligned FWD cheapo estate - i don't fear snow/ice - i respect it and know how to deal with it - knowledge is paramount to all.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Is that the title of the recently stationed cameraman on the outskirts of Newcastle?

Roger - recent -more like 28 years ago

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Funny, had a SWB Defender TD5 engine supplioed by my employer at the time when working a gas pipeline project in Kent a few years back the spreds were 2 miles minimum of graded land, to be honest in the dry an ordinary car could drive most of it but when the weather turned fould you were driving up the axles in clag and given that to one side was a four metre trench the 4WD was great at keeping you going.

I came across some idiot putting a anti 4x4 sticker on the car and pointed out that it was a 'working' 4x4, thier resonse was 'the website told us to look for mud' didn't seem to grasp that 4x4 shedding mud all over the country lanes of Kent wasn't a very safe or responsible approach so all 'road' vehicles had to be cleaned before leaving site.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

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