Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Wed Apr 29, 2026 01:52

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Daylight Saving Time
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 15:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 20:03
Posts: 34
Interesting article on Sky news:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/xml/article/0,,40000-211431,00.html


Quote:
A leading safety group is urging MPs to scrap the UK's daylight saving time system, which brings lighter mornings in the winter but could cause hundreds of extra deaths on UK roads every year.

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA) claims 450 deaths and serious injuries could be prevented if MPs support a Private Members' Bill when it receives its second reading in the House of Commons on Friday.

The Bill says turning back UK clocks at the end of October creates darker evenings when motorists are more likely to be involved in accidents and people killed as a result.

Official fatality figures show that when the clocks were turned back in 2003, road deaths rose from 256 in October to 316 in November - including a 50% jump in pedestrian deaths, which rose to 95.

Winter mornings would be darker as a result of the proposed change, but Kevin Clinton, head of road safety at RoSPA, said: 'There may be more casualties on winter mornings, but these would be outweighed by the reduction in deaths and injuries in the evenings.'

The move, which would bring the UK into line with most of Europe, is being put forward by Labour MP Nigel Beard.

Although Beard suggests that Northern Ireland and Scotland should be free to set their own time, RoSPA believes a common system for the country as a whole would bring the biggest improvement in road


Personally, I think that the risks of accidents are still there (morning noon and night) because of stupid people. But they manage not to talk about that...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 19:41 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 15:11
Posts: 271
Location: Birmingham
What do we mean by "daylight saving" time? As a Sassenach living in the English midlands, I notice no benefit from reverting to GMT in the winter. Much rather have the "extra" hour of daylight later in the day.

Of course, I recognise that the perspective of N Scotland may be different, but why oh why oh why are farmers always given first shout? Cows and sheep DO NOT operate by alarm clocks, so humans should really adapt to them.

Anyone from Ross-shire care to comment?

_________________
Keep right on to the end of the road ...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 20:30 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
DA wrote:
Interesting article on Sky news:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/xml/article/0,,40000-211431,00.html


Quote:

Official fatality figures show that when the clocks were turned back in 2003, road deaths rose from 256 in October to 316 in November - including a 50% jump in pedestrian deaths, which rose to 95.


So people not heard of wearing light clothes, fluorescent jackets? Remember they experimented this when I was a kid. I remember lot of kids getting KILLED on way to school on many a dark morning.

I also remember ADVERTS on the telly about BEING SEEN and a big campaign to make use all wear fluorescent kagouls. I had one - horrid orange colour.

Carry pocket torch as I cross roads in winter months and wear light coloured scarf and gloves. Same with our kids - fluorescent jacket or armband.

Tis called "common sense!" :roll: Gonna be dark at some point in winter whatever we do with the clocks! :roll:

Quote:
The move, which would bring the UK into line with most of Europe, is being put forward by Labour MP Nigel Beard.


Really? So they don't change their times as well? Course they do! Would no make one iota of difference in reality.....One season of BST throughout winter, new BST in summer.... and BST as it is now in winter was laft daft one I heard.....

Quote:
Although Beard suggests that Northern Ireland and Scotland should be free to set their own time, RoSPA believes a common system for the country as a whole would bring the biggest improvement in road


BST Scotland - Highlands would not see much daylight throughout winter at all - and it is a bit daft too have different time zones in small place like UK - domestic trade would suffer as result.

More education is required in basic common sense...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 19:56 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
CJB wrote:
What do we mean by "daylight saving" time? As a Sassenach living in the English midlands, I notice no benefit from reverting to GMT in the winter. Much rather have the "extra" hour of daylight later in the day.

I never really understand why having an extra hour of daylight from 4 to 5 pm rather than 8 to 9 am is likely to reduce the number of accidents, particularly bearing in mind that it is more likely to by icy in the mornings.

I recall the experiment with year-round BST in 1968-71 when there was a lot of fuss about children having to go to school in the dark. People don't seem to realise that, if we did that, during December and January it wouldn't be light anywhere in the UK until after 9 am, which to my mind would be a very miserable experience.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 19:58 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
Mad Moggie wrote:
BST Scotland - Highlands would not see much daylight throughout winter at all

Er, they'd see exactly the same amount of daylight. It would just be from 11 to 3 rather than 10 to 2 :)

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 21:52 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
CJB wrote:
Anyone from Ross-shire care to comment?


I haven't got much of an opinion on the matter. Seems to me that 5 or 6 hours of daylight is five or six hours of daylight whatever the clocks say.

It's probably more significant when kids are going to and from schools in big cities.

Still, it'd be nice to see a chart of daylight by hour by day of year for a few spot locations (London, Manchester, Edinburgh, Inverness.)

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 02:44 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 13:36
Posts: 1339
The present system is vastly superior to both all-round GMT and all-round BST, and the inconvienience of having to change the clocks is outwayed by the benefits.

In the winter, it's barely light for 8 hours out of 24 (even less in Scotland), and having the clocks forward so that noon occurs at 1pm means that it will not be getting light until 9 o'clock.

In the summer, it's light for 16+ hours out of 24 which means that without putting the clocks forward it gets light at the ridiculously early time of 4am or earlier. This is a waste of daylight and the extra hour is more useful and welcome from 9-10pm.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 07:28 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
SafeSpeed wrote:
I haven't got much of an opinion on the matter. Seems to me that 5 or 6 hours of daylight is five or six hours of daylight whatever the clocks say.

It's probably more significant when kids are going to and from schools in big cities.

A benefit of the current system is that, at least in England, kids do get to travel both to and from school in the light, given that the school day is normally about 8.45-3.30.

Quote:
Still, it'd be nice to see a chart of daylight by hour by day of year for a few spot locations (London, Manchester, Edinburgh, Inverness.)

Most diaries quote it for London - on 25 December sunrise is at 08 06 and sunset at 15 56.

If sunrise was moved to 09 06 I suspect a lot of people would be unhappy.

A problem with this whole debate is that a lot of people give the impression that they genuinely believe that altering the clocks can magically spirit extra daylight from somewhere :(

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:07 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
One thing is certain - we will never change the tilt and spin of the earth.

24 hours in a day - and number of daylight hours will not change. BST experiment in the late 60s/early70s meant that my generation went to school in the dark. School day finished at 4.00 pm and the school I attended still finishes at 4.00 pm (as do most independents - including the one my own kids attend).

Zamzara is spot on - current system - which has been around for generations cannot be improved upon.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:19 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Mad Moggie wrote:
One thing is certain - we will never change the tilt and spin of the earth.

24 hours in a day - and number of daylight hours will not change.


The whole 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 7 days in a week, 4.3!!! weeks in a month, 12 months in a year, is pretty seriously arbitrary. I bet we could do a whole lot better - none of those quantities are astronomically significant (except the day and the year of course).

I bet we could come up with a calandar that was the same for every year. Is 7 days the best cycle length for a week? And why did we divide the day into 24 / 60 / 60. And am and pm? Who needs it?

Perhaps the day should always start at dawn: 0.0000 hours. Clearly there should be 10 hours in a day, and (probably) 100 minutes in an hour.Perhaps the 23rd of January should always be a Tuesday.

What a fun time we'd have trying to change it over, especially if the definition of a second changed. The whole MKS system of measurement is hung off of the second.

Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible. :)

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 14:14 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Paul, I believe this is what you are looking for.

No matter how daft the idea, someone has already thought of it. :wink:

Another suggestion has been to put us on CET which is basically UK time plus one hour.

As for kids going to school in the dark. Would it be too difficult to change the school start time?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 21:35 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
Homer wrote:
As for kids going to school in the dark. Would it be too difficult to change the school start time?

A 9.45 or 10 am start time would cause a lot of problems for working parents.

Or maybe we could change the working day as well.

Oh, hang on...

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 13:57 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
PeterE wrote:
Homer wrote:
As for kids going to school in the dark. Would it be too difficult to change the school start time?

A 9.45 or 10 am start time would cause a lot of problems for working parents.

Or maybe we could change the working day as well.


In these enlightened days of family friendly policies why not?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 16:07 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
Homer wrote:
PeterE wrote:
Homer wrote:
As for kids going to school in the dark. Would it be too difficult to change the school start time?

A 9.45 or 10 am start time would cause a lot of problems for working parents.

Or maybe we could change the working day as well.


In these enlightened days of family friendly policies why not?



Um - and business in global economy occurs when? Course - we could always get rid of the school and make them earn their crust at work with Ma and Pa instead of me providing all the time :wink:

10 am start and school day is about 6 hours duration - so .. they would still be coming home in the dark....

We are already seeing days drawing in .... later sunrise and earlier sunset anyway.

Does not matter what we do - we will still have short daylight hours in winter months - and less in Hebrides, Shetlands and Orkneys ....etc..... :roll:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 13:02 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Mad Moggie wrote:
Um - and business in global economy occurs when?

24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Which should provide more scope for more flexible hours than the old 9 to 5.

Quote:
10 am start and school day is about 6 hours duration - so .. they would still be coming home in the dark....

From what I remember of my schooldays, only 20 years ago I would set off at the crack of dawn and return home in full darkness. (School started at 9am, 10 minute walk to the bus stop and 30 min bus ride+walk to school gate, set off a little early to make sure of catching bus so just after 8am. Return home school finished at 4.15 so I would be home around 5.)

Can't say daylight saving did anything for me apart from bringing on the dark nights a few week early.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 182 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.016s | 10 Queries | GZIP : Off ]