Safe Speed Forums

ABD Tayside co-ordinator, Eamon Scott, is prompting a large scale row by advocating honking at mobile camera vans by way of protest. See this article in the Dundee Courier:

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2004 ... 2772t0.asp

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Police quick to respond to speed cameras call

By Andrew Jarret

A CALL by the Tayside co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers for motorists to demonstrate their displeasure at mobile speed camera vehicles by honking their horns at them has been met by a stern warning from Tayside police.

Eamon Scott said he was urging motorists to join a protest against the ?phoney safety messages and money-grabbing antics? of the Tayside Speed Camera Partnership.

Mr Scott said, ?The partnership is pursuing a political and economic campaign against motorists, so sounding your horn is a legitimate form of protest, and lets these highwaymen hear in the clearest possible terms that the motorist in Tayside has had enough.

?We wouldn?t normally call for this sort of direct action, but desperate times call for desperate measures.?

But in a response from police and the TSCP, drivers were warned against taking such action.

?The promotion of a campaign asking for drivers to sound their horn at these camera sites is not in the public interest and is inciting drivers to break the law,? said the statement.

?Drivers can be assured that they will be dealt with robustly by the police if such offences are reported to them.?

Mr Scott said his call comes after another fatal accident at the Auchterarder junction on the A9 and a statement by the TSCP that it cannot support the association?s request to put the money it has taken from motorists in Tayside towards funding engineering improvements at this junction.

?The game is up for the Tayside Speed Camera Partnership,? added Mr Scott.

?Drivers can now clearly see that safety never was an issue for this unaccountable quango.

?I challenge them to even begin to justify their continued existence.?

Mr Scott continued, ?The ABD also highlights the publication last week of independent research by the Transport Research Laboratory which shows that flashing LED warning signs are three times more effective than speed cameras at warning motorists of hazards, but the ABD say these are not being used as widely as they should be because they don?t raise money from motorists.?

The police/TSCP responded by saying, ?The partnership is a road safety initiative with the aim of assisting in the reduction of injury collisions occurring on Tayside?s roads by informing drivers of the dangers of excessive and inappropriate speeds.

?It also conducts high-profile enforcement to reinforce this message.

?The cameras and camera vehicles are deployed at sites selected to influence driver behaviour, at or prior to collision blackspots.

?The sites that are to receive attention are well publicised in the media and where enforcement takes place, routes are marked with safety camera signs to give drivers advance warning and an opportunity to avoid breaking the law and placing themselves and others at risk.

?Far from being ?money grabbing?, the partnership would have no fine income if speeding drivers adhered to the speed limits imposed on the particular road or for the class of vehicle they are driving.

?Unfortunately there are still too many drivers who choose to willingly ignore the speed limits which are set for their safety and the safety of the community at large.

?It is not possible under Treasury rules for TSCP to directly fund road engineering improvements. The partnership can only recover pre-agreed costs of operating the scheme from fixed penalty revenue. In the event that the TSCP created a surplus there are no circumstances where this could be retained or dispensed. Any surplus must be returned to the Treasury.

?LED warning signs are already in use within Tayside.

?Some signs have proved so effective in reducing speed, that safety camera enforcement has been reduced.?
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Safe Speed comments:

We do not know of any law that might be used to prosecute drivers who honk at "talivans".

We hear that Eamon is planning to challenge Tayside Police to arrest him for honking. Now that will be interesting, and may make national news. Good luck Eamon.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Law CUR reg 99.
from Highway code.

The Horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn agressively. You MUST NOT use your horn:
- while stationary on the road.
- when driving in a built up area between the hours of 11.30pm and 07.00am.
EXCEPT when another vehicle poses a dangers.



I believe this is the law the police could use against a motorist sounding their horn when passing a scamera, however the scamera crew would have to be able to state that there was no positive reason why you shouldn't have used it, after all, it was because you saw a child wandering towards the roadedge.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

But the only bit of your above post that is law is the bit I've quoted above.

In otherwords, it is absolutely illegal to sound your horn whilst stationary or late at night in built-up areas. Nothing in the highway code says it is illegal to honk whilst moving outside of the above stated hours.

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Carl Prescott

More news today, the plot thickens...

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2004 ... 1153t0.asp

Police warn over horn protest call

By Alexis Smith

POLICE have repeated their advice to motorists about honking their horns at mobile speed camera vehicles, after the Tayside co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers greeted an earlier warning with defiance.

Last week, Eamonn Scott urged motorists to join a protest against the cameras by honking their horn to show their displeasure, prompting Tayside police and the TSCP to warn drivers they could be breaking the law if they did so.

Mr Scott claimed, however, that the police were showing an ?ignorance? of the law, and added, ?As long as a vehicle is not stationary and it is not after 11.30 pm at night, sounding your horn is not illegal.

?What we are doing is making a legitimate political protest, and this is not only a fundamental human right but also has precedents in cases like the firemen?s dispute.?

Mr Scott said the ABD intends to step up its campaign, and urged drivers not to be ?intimidated?.

?Our solicitors have confirmed the police threats are without legal foundation. In the next few days I will be delivering the message myself loud and clear to speed camera partnership vehicles, and I will be inciting others to do likewise.

?I challenge the police to come and arrest me,? he added.

Last night however, a police spokesman said that honking your horn could land you in trouble.

?The Road Vehicle (Contraventions and Use) Regulations 1986 state that no person shall sound, or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren, fitted to or carried on any vehicle which is: (a) stationary in a road at any time other than a time of danger due to another moving vehicle or near to the road; or (b) in motion on a restricted road between 23.30 pm and 7 am,? he said.

?They also stated that no motor vehicle should be used on the road in such a manner as to cause excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.

?In addition, depending on the individual set of circumstances, the sounding of a horn could be deemed to be an act of driving without due care and attention or reasonable consideration for other people using the road.

?Furthermore, and again depending on the circumstances, the use of a car horn could be regarded as a breach of the peace.

?The car horn is a warning instrument and should be used for that purpose as using it for any other reason could cause other people on the road to be distracted from what they are doing and could compromise road safety.

?Tayside police would not wish any motorist to become involved in any activity which diminishes the use and purposes of the car horn and has the potential to impact upon the safety of people using the road.?

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Looks like the Police are serious - this will turn into a national row. The Police are obviously on a complete and utter loser when this hits the national press.

You read it here first!

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thread on PH concerning the Cumbrian jammer prosecution case. One of the BiB's said the chap (who was not speeding was prosecuted for "obstructing the police in course of their duty" as the garage door opener apparently nobbled their readings He also quoted case whereby some chap was prosecuted for "flashing his lights to warn of speed traps"

Of course, if speed traps are supposed to slow us down - it is only "good citizenship" (as my wife put it in response) to warn people to slow down. After all - think of all the lives we will have "saved" by being responsible and slowing down our fellow drivers!

As for the law on honking! The quote is per HC pgh 92. But it can and should be used if you think other road users have not seen you, (hump bridges and blind bends - and talivans are almost always either in our driveway or hidden behind a blind bend . Therefore, "Officer, I was only bein' helpful -like!"

Per "Roadcraft": p96

"Sound your horn when it could benefit other road users....

...You should consider using your horn on approach to any talivan (erHazard )

and

"alter your position to avoid the hazard and reduce speed (ie drive past said talivan ), then sound the horn in good time to warn other road users of the hazard." (ie said talivan! )

Defence:

"It was a hazard officer - really it was - in my opinion And I have saved some licences (er lives!)!"

I've done that a few times I've never been arrested.

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The way the roads of North Wales are policed is WRONG and it must stop NOW.

BRUNSTROM OUT

Read the crap from the police...

If honking a horn might distract and thus endanger other drivers... What the bloody hell does waving a highway robbery gun as someone do!!!

I have seen you mention this a few times.

I assume your driveway is private property?

Ever fancied setting yourself up as a clamper?

Surely the places they hide these talivans make THEM another vehicle posing a danger??

Can't understand this one. I thought it was to alert others to your presence. I have honked at others who were about reverse onto me when I am parked up!

Anyway if you are in traffic how the hell can they (Scamera vans) prove who honked their horn....

I have had to use my horn for real when a car nearly came across into my lane when being pre-occupied staring at a camera van.

Never mind blowing the horn, I ride a mighty Honda C90 and when I ride past a camera van I drop my speed right down and adopt a full Rossi esc racing crouch!

I would have thought that a cameravan *IS* a MAJOR distraction to drivers and therfore IS a danger - therfore perfectly justified to be honked at.

The quote that they are clearly signposted is useless as the camera signs are always there so they 'cry wolf' - of course to the drivers disadvantage! - I will add that once in a blue moon I've seen a small 'temp' sign - considering the ridiculous size of all other signs these days!
I do not have time to read most papers so often miss where they maybe - plus when I travel around the country, how was I meant to hear the announcement on the 'local Cornish radio station' that morning when I was still in say Manchester!
There continuation of this rubbish, to justify how 'honest' they are being just makes them appear even blacker in my opinion, and they should all be thrown in prison for causing accidents and major personal problems and stress to thousands of good law abiding citizens!
Preventing someone from commiting a 'crime' - cannot surely be in itself a crime.
What about a day of Protests with boards etc outside every camera sight????? They CANNOT object to this - albeit a bit 'tame'...

Quite right. I always honk my horn to warn the occupants of the Scamera van of the presence of dangerous traffic. Just in case the are tempted to open a door and run accross the road!...

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Speed camera policy Kills

>"thousands of good law abiding citizens!

If you break the speed limit even by 1mph you are no longer considered to be 'Law abiding' !

Oh dear........there are no longer ANY 'Law abiding' motorists left..... in the entire world !

Let those who are without sin cast the first stone

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Speed camera policy Kills

Zactly.....wish I'd thought of that line:

Perhaps you should pick up the Good Book more often.
(and I am not talking about the highway code)

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Speed camera policy Kills

It is when the authorities are profiting massively from the 'crimes' occuring, which gives them an obvious incentive to make sure the crimes keep happening.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ortal.html

I still can't understand how that case ever came to court: it just shows how corrupt the system is. I mean for christ's sake, the cameras are SUPPOSED to be signed under the government's regualtions.

Even harder to understand how that got to court when a local councillor was doing the same thing about 200 yards away a few weeks earlier, but was not prosecuted. I guess a pensioner is a softer target than a local politician. And most impossible to understand of all, why did the pensioner receive a driving ban when he had not been charged with any motoring offence? What next, TVs seized when people haven't paid the phone bill?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Considering that the 'Law' is often referred to as an 'Ass', it is not much of a goal, to therefor, be considered in keeping with it!

Anyhow since when did anyone go down a busy high street at 30mph because this *must* be 'safe' ?

We could display our number plates on the side of the car, or better still not at all, although the former suggestion, does still 'hold with the 'Law''. Therefore I cannot be a criminal!

What a joke - do the 'cops' really think that they are going to get respect from the public by calling them criminals by going over 30, when at the same time, they too condemn drivers for going too slow at 30 ! Remember that 'case'?
See the cops are getting brainwashed into actually believing the garbage that they are being fed! Poor souls, my heart bleeds .......
- sorry bit off topic Mr Moderator!

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