Safe Speed Forums

I'm seeing loads of social changes that I absolutely hate. I'm posting this in brainstorming in the hope that we can dig into the bigger picture a bit more and get a real grip of the underlying issues. There follows some potentially disconnected jottings about the problems as I see them.

There's a loss of trust and with it the presumption of innocence. It used to be that members of society were trusted until some substantial evidence of wrong-doing emerged against them. These days we're all monitored in various ways to see if we have transgresed a rule. The idea of essential individual decency has been lost. This shift from a basis of trust to 'we must have a rule for everything' erodes our very humanity.

We're seeing a very scary trend towards government by commercial interest. Why are they littering the Highlands with wind farms? Because the manufacturers convinced politicians that they should? Why are we threatened with ID cards, road pricing, RFID number plates and ANPR? because the system developers convinced the politicians that we really need their kit?

Government science - formerly the most trustworthy in the world, is no more than part of the spin machnine. Anything can be 'proved' if the salary is big enough.

Why on earth do they thing they can fix problems with yet more rules (laws / whatever)? Surely the only 'fixes' involve fostering and encouraging the right behaviours?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Government science has very little to do with either.
I've heard it said that extreme left wing and extreme right wing governments tend to converge in terms of how they treat the general population.
this particular govt. is no exception and for some reason wants to monitor and control almost every aspect of everyone's life from start to finish. the erosion of our overall personal freedoms has been astonishing with very few gains in rights for any groups. Going hand in hand with this is the increasing lack of individual responsibility and a corresponding increase in the 'blame culture'; blame someone else, that is.
Alongside this is the complete lack of trust for anyone or any organisation. i suspect that this may be a bit 'chicken and egg', but it is there nonetheless. Commercial interest comes into this, but it applies equally on a day to day basis.

I agree completely Paul - recent governments (and I use the plural deliberately) have achieved two very strangly contrasting things - a removal of personal reponsibilty from our culture by the imposition of increasingly authoritarian legislation, coupled with an ethos of "look out for youself" at the expense of others. i.e the removal of both personal AND social responsibility from the individual



And this is the "corporate" side of the coin - we see corporates and government effectively "feathering each others nests" by the manipulation of funding and propaganda. Hence we have the contradiction of a government which increasingly is bringing in further privatisation, allowing corporates to influence/manipulate policy, eroding those aspects of the state which ACTUALLY safeguard the well being of society by creating twin track services/education/health/transport etc whilst trying to perpetuate the myth that it represents the "center" (and to many that it represents the centre left).

What I see is a country faced with both its main political parties using "presentation" to make the population believe tehy hold the "centre gound" whereas in reality both represent a corrupt alliance of authoritarianism (for the individual) with corporate exploitation.

Seeing a lot of this in H&S circles - the nanny state, we know best and all that bollocks. We gold plate legislation in the interests of 'safety' and then make it so complicated that people cannot understand or comply with it.

The CDM Regs are being ammended, as part of that there is supposed to be a simplification, but that is getting more complex, was due to come into force this Feb, was pushed back to August theis year has just been pushed back again to early 2007, and we are now hearing rumbles that it might be 2008.

Can't remember who but think it was Micheal Moore who said that part of goernments tactics was to keep the public scared, it helps with anti terror legislation and the like - if we don't pass this then we ar making life easy for the bad men !!!

But the by banging on the terror issue, the public can become desensitised, so let's scare the public with other issues, sex offenders in schools, health etc.

Am also very concerned about the links between gvt and the commercial sector. All these unelected advisors with links to MP's. Private Eye is full of the stuff.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others....

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

The government want the bad men to do thier dirty work.
such as baylifs who escalate a £30 parking ticket so they cann take and crush a car.
Wheel clampers, Ambulence chaising solicitors (not all) armys of parking attendants,

Then they take advice from industry boddies with a commercial interest in more legislation to make them more imporant or earn more. Such as driveing instructors, electricians. Industry bosses suggest fragmentation of the industry so there are more bosses jobs in gas, telecoms, electrisity, rail, enviroment, prisons,
They even create more quangos, more high paid jobs in the "industry regulator" sector. Who regulates the regulators? Who pays for all this in the end? At the end of the day how much does any of these bosses, parking attendants or industry regulators produce?

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Seems IMHO, that whilst the Govt is the driving force, they are making the LA s/ and other bodies the enforcers - so that if the public don't like it they can say --not our fault - we will investigate/take it up with your local politician - on the other hand if the public like it they can take credit for it , especially round election time.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It is all part of the scare tactics. If you can convince the public that they are the guilty ones before they are even charged then they will feel grateful if they aren't charged.

The Government who doesn't trust anybody might be the Government to trust the least.

The Government took guns away from private citizens because they were frightened of an armed uprising, now the only people to have guns are the government and the bad guys neither of whom can be trusted.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

Another well used tactic - can't remember when it started - is to "leak" information on ridiculous price hikes.

E.g. ---mannny,manny moons ago --was in the days of Wilson or someone of his ilk ( when it was first noticed that politicians told the truth with mouth shut) when VED ( OR ROAD TAX IN THOSE DAYS) was less than today - just before a Budget , it was "leaked" that a massive hike was about to come in in the budget. The motorists champ - Nabarro got this between his teeth and shook it - result a "climbdown" by the chancellor ---budget hike of a lot less.
Perhaps a good result , after all it was more than they'd hoped for .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Make "lobbyists" illegal and run the Government going
off public opinion, not the opinion of a lobbyist working
for private interests who openly (but legally) bribes our
MP's in the UK and congressmen in the USA to do things
like pass unsafe drugs, laws that favour the employer
rather than the employee. This is a global problem with
people in all countries seeing this "globalisation" unfold
daily. I think we can all agree that this has only gone wild
since 9/11 happened. In the UK it was already like that,
then 7th July 2005 in BabyLondon we had bombs in our
own country. This allowed legislation to go through that
we would NEVER agree to under normal circumstances.



Evidence of "wrong doing". You mean like the discovery by
a minority that it was in fact not some independent radical
fundamentalists who masterminded the London bombings
but an MI6 ASSET? This is what the report I read says...

"The Dud Bombers of 21/7, the patsies, have all been rounded
up along with 18 others currently under questioning, yet the so
called "mastermind" is allowed to go free and is protected time
and time again by MI5, MI6, FBI and CIA. The same thing
happened in 93 with the WTC bombing, 95 with the OKC bombing,
01 with 911 and its happening again, its the same type of operation
EVERY TIME."

Exactly - we are SOLD the terrorist threat, it IS NOT REAL.

Even Osame Bin Laden has been trading with Bush for DECADES.
THEY VACATION TOGETHER just as the Clintons vacation also
with the Bush family, you see, the illusion is perfect, thats why
it works, thats why people like me get absolutely blasted for
saying these things but it is TRUE, that is what annoys me beyond
anything else, it is people who think there is some threat by muslims,
don't be so stupid, most muslims are good people, because most
humans are good people, and muslims are humans. If we are
going to let some satanic core of industrialist globalists take us
over and lie to us then we are the only ones to blame when it comes
out the real AGENDA here and WHO IS responsible? Never mind that,
my quesion always is -- WHO BENEFITS? Stupid question, considering
that we can see who benefits, it is all around us all the time on TV
and in the papers WHO is benfitting from all these outrages and
hey, it ain't the muslims, I know that for a fact. I should think
muslims are just as worried as anyone else who is NORMAL and
only wants to live in peace from terrorism, the threat of such a
thing and most of all, living in freedom from the threat of a
Government who, not only CAN set these outrages up in the
beginning but can also then make the laws, without dispute half
the time, that allow them to control us even more. I dunno how
much more oppression we are suppused to take. I mean, is there
anywhere I can go and say "look, in th UK the regime and my leader
are waaaaaaaay out of touch, then give them a 1000 page
book of sourcable information as to why I think this, than thats
it, I am seeking asylum from all this oppression arn't I? Its not
like its difficult to prove, jesus.

Here is the original link to the story about the London bombings
actually being the work of our own masters...

http://www.infowars.com/articles/London_attack/mastermind_mi6_asset.htm

There are many links there OFF that main site, please, take
the time to watch the videos and hear the man running the drills
at the same stations at the same times as the real event took place
and how he had to turn the drill into a real emergency, then he
went on radio and said the hairs on the back of his neck stood
up, because look, this is a sheer impossibility, 3 stations, same times,
same places, which is EXACTLY the case on 9/11. There were drills
being run in case a plane flew into the WTC - that is WHY there were
only two jet planes available instead of 14. Becuae there were at
least three drills involving six fighter jets going on, making it impossible
to intercept or even know WHICH PLANES are the "terrorists". Yeah,
terrorists, more like remote controlled planes they gassed the passengers
beforehand then make up black box recordings with ALL three black
boxes having people saying "they have box cutters" come on, it
is truly a case of Alice in Wonderland and people too scared to think
their own trusted Government could be that evil. Evil is their game,
otherwise they would not be in satanic cults like Bush and his "Order
of Death" (Skull & Bones secret society).



Sure does. If there is not one second of footage of the terrorist
events on 9/11 regarding the Pentagon (the most filmed and guarded
place IN THE WORLD?) then why oh why would having cameras
everywhere be of any benefit to anyone? Then, I think by now
some people can guess why there is no footage of any plane hitting
the Pentagon. A missile maybe, or remote controlled missile/plane,
which is why they won't show us any videos of it.



Sure. If you worked in Government and I offered your son or
daughter a £100,000 a year job where they do not even have to
turn up for work, I think we can safely say that with individual
greed being the main factor that gets these people into these positions
in the first place, they are not going to have any qualms about signing
something, without even reading it. These are money orientated
people.



Exactly, for all the reasons I just said.



Yes, by dealing with corruption, but since it was founded with
corruption in mind, probably by whichever bankers were the
richest at the time 1000 years ago and simply wanted more control
over their people, it doesn't really work to try to change the way
the system operates. The problem is, the truth is unbelievable,
until we get around that, nothing CAN change, its not possible.

Now many top agents are coming out and saying these things,
you must understand it is not just the "opinion" of these sources
I provide, they find the story in a respectable paper and tell you
what the paper says. These are facts. All the names are named.
All the witnesses are there. When the media is more like a
media-opoly, then you begin to see, if you can take a step back,
the way the entire thing is set up. It is totally evil, that is a mild
way of putting it.

I am not even religious in any way but even I know the sense in
the saying that "the Devils greatest trick was making people think
he did not exist."

The usual response to my long rants is "its not as simple as that"
but it is you see, it is when you take a step back OUT of the political
side of it completely and instead of studying all these tiny little
by-laws, why not study where the Government came from, the
same interests that always wanted to suck the money out of
society.

That is the exact thing with speed cameras - sucking the money
from us, but always just about getting away with it, because despite
this forum, despite only a tiny minority of people agreeing with the
scheme since its very inception, we still have twelve thousand speed
cameras on our roads. Because one guy and his cronies we voted
in a few years beforehand probably have shares in the camera making
companies - which is legal. Incredible conflicts of interest are happening,
but that seems to be allowed, like you say its one rule for them and
another for us.

President Jefferson said "All men are equal" whilst
"owning" 200 black "slaves". It is OUR attitude also
I think, racist people like Jefferson who are bloody
HEROES to most! Why, because the people choose to
ignore uncomfortable realities, I choose to find out
whats going on.

Yes I agree with the original post. From my point of view Safety Engineer made a valid point about Health and Safety policy. I work in the NHS and H and S takes up about 50% of my workload - no joking. My real job is to tell doctors what is wrong with their patients, so as you can imagine I think it is out of control.

The thing is as Paul pointed out everything, and I mean everything, is written out (SOPs) with cross references here there and everywhere. This engenders a feeling of security for people who don't have to think for themselves anymore. The thing is we now get more, not less, mistakes made. It is self defeating. We need to change the whole culture of not trusting people. I fear the genie is out of the bottle and it is too late.

Think about which influence it is that has changed our
culture into a culture where people do not trust each
other.

Once people can figure out what it is shaping our reality,
only then can we see that hey, we should have been trusting
each other all along.

It is not society that is the problem.

The original post asks what it is that makes us now
seem guilty? I can answer that in 3 numbers - 9/11.
If you investigate that, you will discover why it happened
and why now, we are having our way of life taken away
whilst we ENJOY the fact that it is happening, or most
support it.

When we have women in London saying "yaa, I think people
should give up their liberty for freedom" then I think also,
the "genie" is let out now yes, because of fools like that who
are utterly clueless (lady eyewitness to the Jean Charles
de Menezes murder).

What she meant was "people should swap liberty for security"
but that attitude, that whole impression, was brought about
by the very same interests that are NOW taking our liberty
away and apparently giving us "security" by installing all
manner of cameras everywhere.

London is the most surveilled city in the world OK. Why?
Have they even caught ANY terrorists? Nope. When you
actually look into the facts you find that real terrorists are
actually put up to it by our own Government. Sounds silly?
Go check out anything I claim and came back, prove me
wrong - I want normality in the world as anyone would,
i don't want this stuff to be true but it is, it is reality
unfortunately.

All Blair does is introduce legislation that creates more money for the legal profession (which is what some ministers and also his wife are involved in), raise taxes so that the government salaries and pensions can be raised, cut public services at the same time as increasing public spending, and then say that things are better than in 1997.

Are things better than under the Conservatives in 1997 because he is making more money now?

What do you expect, he used to be a lawyer!

From THE Temple Bar no less.

Oh and he is an incredibly corrupt
individual - and a total liar too!
A "highly paid professional liar"
Which is all any lawyer is lets face it.

It does not help matters having the "City of London"
contained within the huge city of "London" itself,
legal and financial aspects of London tied intimately
together and being the very centre of London,
a long long time before the outer areas we see today.

It is the "City of London" where law and finance
were pretty much set up for England. So it is not
surprising that law helps finance and finance helps
law.

I think we are at a turning point and people are realising how gullible they have been for x amount of years, trusting the one party state controlled by strings.

I seriously see a revolution in the UK/Europe within the next 30 years. People are going to say enough is enough and just stop what they are doing. Mind you, the revolution-engineered by our government-will give them the excuse to plague us with even more draconian laws-if they are still breathing that is!

Regards

Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

..

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

[quote="FJSRiDERWitness the recent overturn of the 'sham' marrage laws[/quote]


Why yes indeed--- look at this http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2127502.html


And another way things have gone wrong.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

A novel by Michael Crichton - the creator of 'Jurassic Park'

State of Fear...


Read it and weep...

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

Blimey LeveL, you've been sucked well in by the conspiracy mob...



What are you on about? Before 9/11 the US maintained almost no air-defence cover (why would they) and the 2 ANG F-16s that took off where not on Air-defence duties at the time. This lack of QRA cover was not some CIA conspiracy, it was the norm - who would they be defending against, the Russians? If you claim that 6 aircraft where in the air at the time where true (which it incidentaly is not) then that would be a bonus as they would be able to intercept almost immediately (all airborne military aircraft carry live ammunition in their guns at all times).

As for the Box Cutters, the reason all 3 cockpit voice recorders have the phrase on on them is because that just happens to be what all of the terrorists where armed with.



MI6 are the external intelligence service - covert action within the UK would be the remit of MI5. At least try to blame the right service

Sorry for the DP but...



Try this LeveL:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3289009.stm

Sajid Badat - first order scumbag. Followed by MI6 entering Pakistan, entered Afghanistan and attended several training camps. Placed under surveillance after his return to the UK and caught red-handed trying to board a plane at Gatwick with explosives in his shoes. UK 1, Terrorists 0.

These sort of things are stopped all of the time, but you only hear about them if they go wrong or they slip through the net. The dud bombers tried to make a bomb using instructions found on the internet and they didn't work - who do you think puts these instructions on the net for scumbags to find? Why do you think they all didn't work?

Hmm... http://www.gchq.gov.uk/

Why is it that governments fail to cover up even the most basic scandals, yet you firmly belive that they have an apparently perfect record at covering up thier supposed involvement in 9/11 and the like?