Safe Speed Forums

I drive to and from work on the A3 and the week before last there were 2 accidents on separate days very close the the southbound speed camera as you approach Tolworth. This is sighted on a straight 3 lane dual carriageway. It appeared that cars had ended up shunting each other as somebody braked for the camera. I have noticed that although the limit is 50 (it was 70 before the cameras were introduced) people automatically brake as they approach the camera even if they are doing 45 or less.
It seems that it has become an automatic reaction in many people even if they are not exceeding the speed limit at all. Has anyone done any research as to the amount of accidents caused by people braking this way ?

why !!

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Why ? because obviously the cameras, at least in his instance, have had a negative impact on the driving habits of many drivers. I thought that they were supposed to stop accidents not cause them.

I can remember when the A3 was 70mph, from the Robin Hood Roundabout practically all the way down to Portsmouth- and it was safe.
Yes, there were prangs, but generally on the rural bits, and not down to speed- appallingly bad judgement, yes, but not speed per se.

or could it be the simple fact that these motorists are ambling along totaly unaware of the change in limits (the reason in the change of limits i do not know, could it be a simple case that 70mph is too fast), they see a camera and their arses quiver because they do not know what speed they are drving at, and hence brake, subsequently the tailgater then subsequently rams the first vehicle.

before you all start on your replys, those who know me i hope know that i am as straight as an arrow with regard to procedure,

but this week i have had several motorists stop to enquire about various things, some want to see the camera, some want to ask me to visit their area but the majority want to know 1 thing have they been booked, 2 i told to their face they had been (1 said sorry and thanked me the other said )

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There is no change in limit on this section of road. It is straight, slightly downhill and 3 lanes wide. The limit is 50 for a stretch of about 3 or 4 miles.
(The whole same stretch used to be 70 but that was a good few years ago now.) They react to the fixed camera but often they are not exceeding the limit or even near it. Obviously the person behind may be too close but you do not expect, on a straight 3 lane dual cariageway, someone to suddenly brake if they are say 5mph under the posted limit. This is not a case of people speeding up to the camera and slamming on the brakes.
My point is that the cameras have changed driving habits in a negative way and whilst not being the exclusive cause, are certainly a major contributing cause to fairly regular accidents on that stretch of road.

so why break !!

in my area if i want to i can drive at 36, 37, 38, 39 ,40, 41 etc mph knowing the exact point that the SCP prosecute at / where the cameras are going to be etc, once i go out of my force area i am as likely a target as anyone else, the forces next to mine have lower prosecution limits (ok i know them roughly)

go further a field what do i do, keep to the posted limits (yes it is frustrating yes it is boring, and maybe i do not think that the limit is suitable, but who am i to agrue with the reasons why the limit is there no doubt it is due to circumstances that i know nothing about)

a couple of weeks ago i drove the M25 at night variable limits, i looked at the set up i looked at the signs looked at the information boards and kept to the limits did i like it no, but not knowing who was out i kept to the limit

is it to much to ask

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Exactly, why brake ? The point is that people are braking just because the camera is there not because they are exceeding any limit, it is like a Pavlovian response. The camera itself is the trigger. Has anyone else noticed this ? People see the camera and brake regardless of the speed they are doing.

so do they brake because they do not know the speed they are traveling at or do they break because they do not know the posted limit ???

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Negs I can't comment on Camera Operator's neck of the woods but here in Essex, there are some abysmal signage (or lack of) and we have had speed limit reductions that have had nothing to do with safety but with planning issues.

As such it is difficult on certain roads to be 100% aware of what the limit is, so there is a lot of panic braking when people see a camera 'just in case', it seems to be worse where they have been buggering about with 30 & 40 limits.

Couple that with the fuckwits that are placing the camera vehicles dangerously (that is a professional opinion not a personal one) I'm not surprised at the panic response.

Camera Operator, not sure what neck of the woods you are from, so please don't see this as an attack on you. Have had some 'interesting' conversations with ECP !!

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Oh as an answer to the other part of this post's title, I hate it when there is an RTA on the other side of the road and people slow down to gawp at it.

Having been at the mucky end of quite a few RTA's it's not really worth seeing !! Some sort of morbid fascenation I suppose.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

every time i see a body bag i thinkanother prposed site

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The reason they brake is simply because they see the camera. Nothing to do with their speed nothing to do with the limit.

so back to reality why break, a neverending circle IMO

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Dear Mr Camera Operator I am not trying to be rude but you seem unable to grasp the concept that the reason that they brake is because they see the camera. Oh and its brake not break !

I think drivers scrub off a little more speed than is necessary because they don’t know what allowances exist within the system. Everyone reading this thread will know the 10%+2 guideline and that speedos must (should) over-read, but MOP aren’t nearly as well informed as us (otherwise the speed camera policy would be dead due to everyone understanding and appreciating RTTM), so they weight up the risk based on false assumptions, hence slow down to ensure protection of their entitlement to drive. Also, many people are now aware of the inaccurate measurements from these machines – “I’m doing 39 but it might clock me at 43 so I had better slow down”.

Put all these factors together and you begin to understand why most drivers do a genuine 30 in a visibly enforced 40 limit.

so turn the debate on its head, would the said driver who was traveling along the said road suddenly brake because the said driver was unaware of his speed and thought oh s##t theres a camera, no doubt the warning signs were covered by the trees in winter and any other indications were hidden by the uninsured driver passing (sorry to the regulars bad day)

yes break is brake

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I agree with CO, the only possible reasons people brake at fixed camera sites is:

a) They aren't aware of what their speed is.
b) They are going too fast and are likely to be prosecuted if they don't slow down.

When I am passing a fixed camera site I let engine braking take me down to the required speed if I am over well in advance. I see other drivers who are obviously miles away, see the camera, and slam the brakes on automatically.

The cause is a simple lack of observation and awareness and unfortunately one that will never be addressed in current policy.

thank you

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thank you

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