Safe Speed Forums

Case of David Jennings case dropped at Totnes mag's court:

Scan here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=9527

This has to be a huge story!!

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

By the report it happened last year. how come it's only just breaking?

Here's the scan, cleaned up from the Pepipoo posted one:

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I am SHOCKED that it took two years and £30,000 to find that the signage was inadequate!!

Some people with real jobs have been sacked for less!

That's a Nick Leeson sized blunder were it true!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

The statement at the end of the article is clearly wrong because there is no requirement in law to sign cameras.

So we should conclude that the Daily Mail is misreporting or the CPS are fudging. I'd give it 50/50 - and probably both.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

"the home office refused to comment"
Maybe we need a freedom of information request :
Aasking for a breakdown of costs in this case
Asking for the progress made in each of the 15 court hearings
The actual reason that he was cleared

When you get a ticket it just says on the back something like" if you think this is wrongly issued you can go to court. It does not say you need 15 days anual leave and £30,000. The court system is being abused to give extra punishment to speeding cases. This is ment to dis-empower ordenary people from getting justice

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Exactly, after 3 or 4 court hearings wasted with no progress made, and the costs threatening to spiral into the life-destroying region, the average person is just going to fold and pay up. And they know it.

They're treating the justice system like a massive game of poker, the only difference is the accused is never allowed to 'call'.

This is a classic example of "justice is those who can afford it". We are far too over-proud of our "democracy", which gets, IMHO, less democratic by the year. Freedom and justice are closely bound together, without equal access to justice we have no democracy.

There is a requirement according to the DfT Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme for England and Wales for 2005/06, and yes it is a rule (my bold):



Thanks to Dixie for the info.

That document contains:

Page 6:

Compliance with these rules has no bearing on the enforcement of offences
detected by the use of safety cameras. Non-compliance with these rules and
guidelines by a partnership, or representative of a partnership, does not
provide any mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence under current UK
law committed by a driver or registered keeper.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

on another board , Blue dart stated that the 30 limit was incorrectly signed.

the three had a flat top rather than a curley 3

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It did not comply with the law!

Not necessarily! You can get leagal aid if the case is complex. As soon as you involve a laser expert, it gets complex! He may have had a good laser defence, but the signing defence was the one that won it.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

It worked remarkably well for the late, and deeply unlamented, Robert Maxwell.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

How did I miss that?

Does that sneaky paragraph mean the whole handbook is pretty much redundant?

Are there any rules for the SCPs at all??????

Yes but:



and this is exactly my point, our legal system is frighteningly expensive in the eyes of the ordinary person, who is unlikely to take the risk in the hope legal will subsequently be forthcoming.

YES --

1) generate as much cash as possible, by any method possible, but try to maintain that cash generation is in name of road safety.
2) in the event of a clash with any other directive ,refer to rule 1

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The legal aid covers the cost of your defence solicitor, but if you are eventually found guilty you may be ordered to pay all of the CPS costs. It is suspected that they call hearing after hearing purely in order to bump up these costs and frighten the accused into folding.

It is my understanding that with a representation order, the defence solicitor is covered, the prosicution experts and defence experts come out of a central fund. The court can award costs against the defendant for the prosicution solicitors.
I would not expect a £30,000 bill. It could be argued with 15 hearings that the prosicution dragged out the case un-necessarily.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Oh yes - the rules apply. If they break the rules they should not be able to 'cost recover'. After all those are the rules for the cost recovery scheme.

Apparently if you write to the district auditor pointing out non-compliance all hell breaks loose. According to information received, he can be held personally liable for losses if he does not act to rectify.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

AIUI thats only true if the sign was erected after 1st January 1965. If its simply an old sign to old standards (and from your description this sounds likely) then the sign would still be legal.