Safe Speed Forums

When you or I approach a red light, we have to stop. Should we fail to do so we could cause an accident, or if we don't we will, quite rightly be caught on camera.

If we approach a red light in a built up area it often has a ped exing and we still have to stop or we kill people.

So when the light for us goes green and the light for the pedestrians goes red, why do they still keep crossing and why do they look so amazed when I start driving, sounding my horn?

There is a road in southend that can't be 200 yards long. it has a pedexing at either end and one in the middle. People don't use them and when they do, they cross on red. Why are they allowed to get away with this? If one gets hit does the person that hit them get prosecuted? Who pays for the damage to the car? Not my insurance, that's for sure. Isn't that Jaywalking?

Is road saftey not the responsiblity of all raod uses not just the one with numberplates that can be read from a camera?

I posted this recently.

Where do we stand?

Taking my kids to the cinema this evening, come up to a traffic light controlled junction, lights on red, I stop at the stop line.
The lights change to green, just as I am starting to roll forward, a woman pushes her buggy out into the road causing me to stop again, What the hell?
She strolls across the road causing a car coming the other way to have to stop, What the hell?

I fully understand and accept that as a driver, I have to obey road law, yet when I am obeying the law, a pedestrian can totally disregard the law with impunity, What the hell is going on?
She also used the baby and buggy as a means to stop traffic, is this not deliberate endagerment of a child?

This is not a rare occurance, this is total disregard for the laws put in place to protect all of us, yet nothing is ever said to a pedestrian, WHY?
Are pedestrians sacred cows or something?

I had something similar happen in front of a police officer, and he did nothing, What the hell?

Are drivers not entitled to protection from cretinous pedestrians who abuse the law like this knowing full well that if something untoward were to happen, it would be the drivers fault?

Please, I know that drivers are considered to be the great satan, but come on, it can't be all our fault.

If this total disregard of the law by pedestrians continues, there will be anarchy.

I have a responsibility of care to other road users, be they drivers or pedestrians, don't they have the same responsibility of care as well?

ps, my speed would have been less than 3mph, no speeding related incident there then

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

I'm increasingly becoming in favour of a jay walking law. Whilst I admit that I do it myself when roads are clear, a willingness to deliberately walk in front of moving traffic seems to demonstrate a desire to improve the human race by removing oneself from it, Darwin award-style.

Worse though, and mentioned on a another thread, are those parents who their child's buggy/pushchair to scare drivers into stopping at very little notice. At some point, a driver somewhere may not be paying immediate attention. By this I do not mean that the driver is doing anything wrong; a small distraction is all it would take at any speed.

like checking his speedo, because hes just about to pass a camera?

From a legal point of view.. the pedestrian has right of way over you at ALL times.

The only exception is where you were unable to stop becasue they stepped into you path within the distance and time you needed to take avoiding action.

The police will measure your speed and the location of the accident to determine if you took the appropriate action.

Some years ago I very nearly mowed down an old lady who had decided to dash across at the last moment. I was travelling below the speed limit and was totally unable to react in the time it took her to get almost half way across the road. It was dark and raining, and she was not wearing anything particularly bright. By the time I saw her, reacted and it was almost too late.

Had I hit her, I am possitive I would have been prosecuted as a speeding motorcyclist recklessly mowing down an innocent ole lady. Due to her estimated age she would probably have been fatally injured.

Fortunately I was able to swerve slightly which made her stop.

I would prefer the lights to be always red, and for drivers to have to get out of thier cars and press a button to stop the pedestrians from crossing, and for there to be a delay of five minutes before they change.

That would be fair because, for some reason, when you press the button to cross the road, there is a delay of up to several minutes. The woman with the buggy is worried that , if she doesn't cross soon, she will have to wait for zillions of smug car drivers to zoom by, before she gets her chance again!

Anyway, the lights should wait (max) 5 seconds before stopping the cars, then this would not happen, and they should stay on red long enough for old people to get across.

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I stole this .sig

And this year's award for most contentious and impractical suggestion goes to...

Several minutes? Still, it's true that some pedestrian controlled lights do seem to take an age to change, and some seem to go green again faster than others. 5-10 seconds sounds reasonable to me, but then I'm an impatient bastard on foot as well as behind the wheel , and it doesn't make much sense to me to have lights where pedestrians only get halfway over before the flashing ambers. That just winds up drivers who are okay stopped in front of a red light, but might start fuming "Hurry the **** up you doddering old git" a nanosecond after the lights change. Some sort of zimmer allowance needed?
basingwerk, you like automation. Isn't it possible to come up with lights that detect how heavy the traffic is and how many people want to cross the road? Then if there's one car approaching and two pedestrians on the crossing the car is stopped and vice versa. I know that's vastly oversimplified since you'd have to decide what happens if another pedestrian or car shows up, and what's the maximum time pedstrians should have to wait and so on, but I'm sure you get the picture. I know some crossings have traffic detectors on (and have had for years - there was one outside my school), but it would make sense to have pedestrian detectors too. Then maybe 30 pedestrians wouldn't have to wait for a dozen single occupant cars to pass before they could cross.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

We already have Puffin crossings which have some of the advanced features you describe. When a pedestrian presses the button a sensor checks that someone is actually standing waiting to cross and does not change the lights to red unless there is. Once the lights are red other sensors track the pedestrian across the road and the lights go back through the normal Red+Amber, Green sequence (no flashing amber) once they are safely across.

I presume these are more expensive than standard Pelican crossings which is why they aren't as common, typically appearing near old folks' homes and hospitals.

No they don't. Motorists have a duty of care to take every reasonable step to avoid hitting pedestrians, even if they do recklessly run out into the road, but the only situation where pedestrians actually have a right of way (i.e. motorists are required to stop to let them proceed) is on zebra and signalised crossings. There's a subtle but important difference between the two.

If a pedestrian puts one foot on the road at a marked crossing point which isn't a zebra or a Pelican or similar, there is no obligation on the motorist to stop.

Having said that, it is never illegal for pedestrians to walk in the road, even at the red phase of a signalised crossing.

In practice, it would be impossible to introduce any kind of jaywalking law except in zones (maybe in city centres) where very frequent pedestrian crossings were provided, and even then it would be effectively unenforceable.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Then how does it work in Germany? No-one, and I mean NO-ONE dares cross at a signalised crossing until the Ampelmännchen turns grün.

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Keep right on to the end of the road ...

Presumably the Germans do have no jaywalking zones in city centres - but the same doesn't apply on suburban streets.

And the Germans are well known for being good at obeying orders

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Well perhaps. Or is that just the way we socially irresponsible Brits prefer to see it?

I worked on a place that had a railway through it. we used to have to phone EVERY time we crossed the tracks for permission.

Pedestrians expect road users to stop. If I swam across the docks at Tilbury would a 56,000 tonne container ship have to perform an emergency stop? What if I kicked my football onto runway 1 at Heathrow, would a 747 have to abort a landing? I doubt it. But when little Johnny jumps into the path of anything on a road it is a different story.

In southend there is a footbridge provided for people to use to cross the road. But it seems they find it much easier to climb over the barriers and dodge the traffic. The council have erected fences to stop people crossing the dual carriage way. But when it all goes wrong it is a "speeding motorist" that is at fault and not a stupid idiot that should have known better.

You learn something new everyday. Thanks for the info on puffin crossings, MrsMiggins. I thought they were just the same as pelicans apart from the lights. They're good in another way. When stupid kids with too much time on their hands press the button and then run off, the lights don't change and stop traffic for no reason.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Same applies in Switzerland - as I found out when I was a mere slip of a lad aged 14.

Visited the cousins. Was out with the lads in town. The little man changed to red - and I only placed my foot on the roadway. I got the grandmother of ticking offs from the local gendarme and a sharp fine ...

I had to declare this on my application form too... Good job it was for a walking offence ....

No problem I just wish they'd erect them more often - they are so much better at keeping pedestrians safe without pi$$ing motorists off since there is no flashing amber phase where pedestrians will decide to nip across even though the green man is already flashing

There are also Toucan and Pegasus crossings, which are essentially Puffins for bikes and horses (where's the geek smiley when you need one )

I lived in Munich for a long time, and I can tell you that things in Germany work a heck of a lot better than things in the UK, mostly because the people there follow thier orders, and do what they are told. There is a lot more 'respect' for the state over there, and there are thick rule books with convoluted conditions for every imaginable situation.

The only people I saw walking across the road before the man changed to green were foreigners like me. I was never struck down by lightning, nor did a Beamter ever jump from behind a bush and nick me. I don't quite know what makes Germans so regelmäßig, bit I think it is all related to cultural norms.

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I stole this .sig

I think there must also be Dodo crossings, though there's no mention of them in the HC. These are the ones that tend to be on bends or high speed straight sections of road, and consist of no lights or markings of any kind. Dodo crossings are for people with a tendency towards self extinction.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Thats putting it a bit strong, but the Germans (and Swiss for that matter) certainly have a well developed sense of social responsibility.

Here in the UK we get the public behaviour we deserve, loud music, jaywalking, letting off fireworks at all hours etc etc. 30 years of preaching 'live and let live' and latterly 'individualism' (nice word for selfishness) above all else leads to, surprise, surprise, the chaos and social irresponsibility we currently have.

Having personal experience of these intelligent crossings on my walk to work every morning I can tell you why you don't see them more often they don't bloody well work. Unless you stand in exactly the right spot conveniently placed to give you a good soaking on wet days the WAIT light turns off and you have to do a little dance to get it back on again. If it wasn't for crossing traffic eventually triggering the lights I would end up crossing on red out of sheer frustration.

Oh and the button actually does nothing, on the set I use the spot you have to stand in to trigger the sensor is about four feet from the button so you get old ladies frantically jabbing at it trying to get the WAIT light on.