Safe Speed Forums

Subject says it all really. Any advice on what I should do? Just forget it? I went through the gatso lines slowing from just under 30 to a speed to filter past stationary traffic that started just after the gatso dots ended so I am certain I was not going too quickly. There is a bit of a crest just before the camera so I never come over at more than 30 as there is often queued traffic.

For those that know south London its the camera on Blackheath Hill/A2 as you drop down from the Heath towards Deptford.

I am serisously worried, I do about 25,000 miles a year on bikes and another couple of thousand in cars. I have a clean licence at the moment but I do not have money to fight this if I get a dreaded brown envelope. I do not want to end up with points because I can not afford a lawyer.

Does anybody know if the Met do a speed awareness course? If the worst comes to the worst I would do that rather than have points.

By the way my first post so hi.

Damian

Welcome!

Head over to www.pepipoo.com for more advise. I would suggest requesting photographs of the 'crime' to see if they clear you.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Hi Damien, welcome aboard!

If it was a GATSO then you should be able to request the two photos that it took, and from these deduce your actual speed in terms of the distance covered between them being taken. This is the purpose of the "double-flash" so as to independently corroborate the reading taken by the radar.

But in any case, don't do ANYTHING until you've read up a bit more on pepipoo and properly assessed all the options available, and (for instance) whether the Notice of Intended Prosecution was correctly served or is invalid etc etc.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Welcome.
Have you received an NiP yet? If you have, what speed does it allege you were doing?
Remember, a motorcyclist recently received an NiP for well over the limikt and using the lines on the photographs was able to prove his speed was below 20 mph, the error being caused by a bus going the other way deflecting the radar signal.
If you know, absolutely, that you were below the limt you really shouldn't worry too much.

I wouldn't stress it.

been flashed more than once meself and heard nowt, cars zooming past on the other side of the road and allsorts can set them off.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Hi Damian.

This sounds similar to:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=9165 which as others point out is not an unusual occurence.

It would be helpful to know of the camera was in front of or behind your car/bike when it flashed. Do you know if it was a Gatso or Truvelo type?

Normally I would say ‘Don’t worry! It’s probably a faulty or an uncalibrated dummy unit. If the former, the operator processing the photos and confirming the corroborating speed from them will realise the error and file the case in the bin’, but there has been a noticeable rise in the number of drivers (probably due to increased awareness from increased media attention) who have incorrectly received NIPs in exactly such circumstances. If you do get a NIP, post a scan (with your details edited out) and we can give you further advice.

There’s no need to panic if you genuinely weren’t speeding, there are plenty of people in these forums who are willing help you should you face such a false conviction.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

If, and I've no reason to doubt it, you were travelling slower than 35mph when the camera flashed, then I suspect there was no film in the camera. Often, partnerships will set the flash to trigger at a lower speed when there is no film in the camera. They do this to create fear and doubt in the law-abiding motorist and cause them to worry for weeks about the consequences of receiving a NIP in the post. It gives the partnership bosses a buzz, and keeps the working man in his place.

Brilliant, starfin

Reminds me of that sketch with John Cleese and the 2 Ronnies where the "lower class" person (Ronnie C?) says "I know my place". A nice exaggerated skit with a vein of truth that makes it "bite"... as with the comments about the partnerships above, I believe

The camera was a gatso. I have seen it triggered before by a bike going up the road (ie towards the camera) at an insane speed. So the camera can be triggered from traffic going towards it.

There was little on coming traffic this morning though there is a wide central reservation with islands and oncoming traffic was not my main area of concern so there might have been a vehicle going the other way that triggered it.

Its a shame you dont know the road; there is no way you would have anything over 30 in your riding plan at that point. Even when there is no traffic its an off camber right hander straight after the camera.

Anyway thanks to everyone for all the advice. I guess I sit tight and wait now. Fun.

As a slight aside I dont suppose you are the same Smeggy as on Sports Touring.NET?

You should be fine if nothing arrives in 2 weeks (plus postal lag) assuming you are correctly registered as the keeper. Be sure to post the details if you do get a nasty surprise!



No! Dammit, I thought I had a monopoly
I am the same smeggy on several other sites, but not that one.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I have seen this a few times, where a car has been flashed when going nowhere near the limit, so it will be intersting to see what happenes.

Another thing that i have spotted is that those boards that flash your speed up can be quite far out (compared to my speedo)

The error is quite normal because speedos (almost always) over-read.
Speedos have a tolerance - this can't be helped. Speedos are set such that they leave the factory with a tolerance of 0% to +10% (not -10 to +10%) such that you cannot blame your speedo if you are caught above the limit, even when factoring mechanical tolerances and drift.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I forgot that, my Suzuki is about 7% over at low speeds, and at bigger speeds up past 10%, so thats another MPH or so I was slower. Not sure why it changes with speeds. The Triumph on the other hand is the most accurate bike I have had, its about 5% all the way through the range.

I assume you mean precise

[/pedantic]

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Actually ACCURACY is the correct word in this instance. PRECISION is the resolution of the measurement, ie 1 +/- 0.5 mph in the case of most speedos. ACCURACY is how close the measured value is to the actual value.

You want a pedant war, you got one!

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

CHARGE!

I’m under the extremely strong impression that:
Precision is a reliably consistent result (given the resolution) but off target (in this case a constant 5% error)
Accuracy is a reliably exact correct result on target (in this case a constant 0% error)

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I would say that both your definitions describe ACCURACY, but highlight the importance of CALLIBRATION and TOLLERANCE. The former scenario is describing something that is 100% accurate and with +/- 0 tollerance, but with a 5% error in callibration therefore giving a consistantly incorrect result. (The result would still be considered inaccurate because it is not a true representation of the facts, or would be considered accurate within +/- 5%)

The latter describes something that is 100% accurate as measured by something that is in perfect callibration again with zero tollerance.

I suppose that we might be looking at the definitions from different sides - my definitions are based on measuring equipment whereas I think yours might be based on statistical analysis?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

A broadside...

An instrument can be PRECISE, ACCURATE or BOTH. An accurate thermometer would read 10 deg C if the temperature was 10 deg C. A precise thermometer might have a resolution of say 0.1 deg but if it wasn't accurate it might read 10.3 deg C when the temperature was actually 10.0 deg C. An accurate and precise thermometer would read 10.0 deg C. Calibration (accuracy) and resolution (precision) are numerical expressions of accuracy and precision.

Hope that helps!

That's what I was trying to say starfin

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

A counter-attack...


Isn't that "repeatability", or in lay terms consistency?

What a marksman would call "grouping" - ie an accurate marksman with a consistently inaccurate gunsight will achieve a close grouping of off-target shots.

Tolerance is surely a definition of an allowable degree of inaccuracy? Eg your speedo has a tolerance of +10%/-0%

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!