Safe Speed Forums

On the tail end of the ITN news they showed the front page of tomorrow's papers. The Daily Mail had a front page headline saying "Speed Cameras do lie" (or words to that effect). Explanation of the story was a motorcyclist nabbed for 40mph proved he was doing just 18mph.

All grist to the mill...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

motorcycle news got thier first two page spread wendsday , I think.

it was a gatso/truvello
Still cracking news. How can a stationary bus three lanes away double his speed?

police agreed the speed was wrong
still sent him a summons untill MCN got involved

sS it is the camera failed,
the bod who checked the film
and the partnership in general that failed him/us/justice
scandal!

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Money - Money - Money - it's a rich man's world ( so the scamerati think)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Any linkies to the story??

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Safe Speed issued the following PR at 01:35 this morning:

PR271: Yes, speed cameras do lie

"Let's FINE THE STAFF at the camera partnerships £60 if they ever make a
mistake processing one of these tickets. It's only fair."

NEWS: for immediate release

The front page of today's Daily Mail reveals yet another speed camera blunder.
In this case the speed measured by radar is not corroborated by the
photographs. An innocent motorcyclist has been considerably inconvenienced.

It is well known and understood that radar speed measurement, as employed in
Gatso cameras, is subject to various anomalies. This is why Gatso speed
cameras also take two photographs half a second apart. The movement of the
vehicle between the photographs must corroborate the radar reading.

Unfortunately this system depends on camera partnership staff checking the
photos against the radar reading before they issue a ticket.

The Daily Mail case is just one more where the operators failed in their duty
to check the photos properly before issuing a ticket.

The vast majority of people who receive a ticket pay it because they have
reasonable confidence in the equipment and procedures. This case proves that
their confidence is misplaced. A large but unknown number of motorists will
have been duped into paying a fine that they didn't deserve. It could easily
be tens of thousands.

The situation is made much worse because camera partnerships are often
extremely reluctant to supply photographs - sometimes refusing to co-operate
right up to the point of a court appearance. It is obvious that the system is
heavily geared into intimidating people to pay the fixed penalty ticket - so
much so that their entire approach is known as 'bluff and bluster'.

Safe Speed three point action plan:

* Let's FINE THE STAFF at the camera partnerships £60 if they ever make a
mistake processing one of these tickets. Perhaps that will make them take
proper care. This is the same sum that an innocent motorist would have to pay
if ticket processors make a mistake, it's only fair.

* Members of the public MUST obtain the photos and CHECK FOR THEMSELVES that
no error has been made BEFORE paying a ticket.

* Department for Transport must require camera partnerships to SEND OUT THE
PHOTOS with every single speed camera ticket.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "These blunders are everywhere. A new blunder
comes to light at least once a week. It's no wonder that the public have no
confidence in the speed camera system - it is an utter shambles and a
disgrace."

"Speed camera have comprehensively failed to make the roads safer. They damage
road safety and the Police public relationship. Let's get them off our roads
right now."

"Let's FINE THE STAFF at the camera partnerships £60 if they ever make a
mistake processing one of these tickets. It's only fair."

<ends>

Notes for editors
=================

See Daily Mail, front page, Saturday 24th December 2005

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Nooooo!!!!

Don't fine them £60 - put 3 points on their licences instead...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Well I'd fine them double as they have refund the £60 - so we need £60 to put back in the till and I'd put points on their licences as well as we really do need to get incompetents off the road

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Sounds like a dirty trick from the Daily Mail. I haven't seen the whole article yet, but it seems they have had a comment from someone at the RAC (teaboy?) saying that this is a 'serious error' and all speed cameras should be shut down.

If they have run the story as if this is a 'newly discovered error' then it's grossly irresponsible journalism. I had a long chat with them on Friday afternoon and explained the situation in considerable detail. (Radar anomaly to be expected, photo corroboration built in to deal with the error, operator error in photo checking also required to issue faulty ticket.)

I wish I could get to see the whole article right now, but they haven't yet updated their web site.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Paul, I emailed you scans of the MCN story last week

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Daily mail scans.....

front page

text page7

pictures page 7

note that the traffic the signal may have bounced off is stationary.
and the bus where low frequency vibrations may have come from is almost out of shot. It is extremly possible that a heavy vehicle could be completly out of shot and cause these misreadings (if that was the cause?)

Merry Xmas all
Anton

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

As well. Yes. I missed a trick there didn't I?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks for those. First time I've actually been able to read the article. My quote is pretty wildly inaccurate - I never said anything about counting the money. But no harm done.

I'm deeply curious about what Kevin Delaney may or may not have said. I do believe that there are excellent reasons for pulling the plug on cameras - but pulling the plug because of commonplace radar errors (which were well understood when the system was designed) is pretty barking.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

as long as the plug is pulled, does it really matter what it took to get the general populace to wake up?

Poetic justice really...

That those who have lived by inaccurate information should die by the same cause..

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

It’s also the effort and lack of lucre attitudes of SCP’s to get £60.00, and not to mention the 3 points on your licence.

Well done!! the Daily Mail. The more "in the ribs" these SCP's get the better.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Personally I think we should go much further than a £60 fine/3 pts.

The Scammers by issuing the NIP have taken the first step in the legal process, without any evidence whatsoever against the driver/rider.

This should be dealt with as attempting to pervert the course of justice.

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That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).

The Daily Mail is becomming one of our best allies following up with this story

And the RAC Foundation may need some appreciating letters too

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code