Safe Speed Forums

Gatsobait all of what you say seems basically correct to me, and in my postulation the biggest question is over how mr (/mrs) average driver feels about the training / speed offer.

The one point that I think has been slightly missed is a strategic one: like it or not, GPS vehicle tracking WILL happen and my plan is really a foil against the extreme and short-sighted uses that the new technology couold be given. The 'no policing by numbers' lobby (of which I am a wholehearted member) accedes to the 'big brother eye in the sky' but harnesses it for some positive gain and pushes the barbarians of 'speed kills' back from the gate a little.

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Carrot not stick, train don't fine.

Colud be, but I still hold hope that you'll turn out to be wrong about the GPS vehicle tracking. For one thing we don't know if they'll be able to get the thing working properly - did you see In Gear's comments about tagged and GPS tracked criminals being temporarily lost due to being near tall buildings? Could make tracking cars through major cities a bit problematic not to speak of tunnels, adjacent roads with different limits etc. Then there are time and cost considerations - can anyone name even one major government project involving IT that's come in on time and under budget? At worst I think we're years away, and at best they might give it up as hidesouly expensive and unworkable before implementaion. And finally I fully expect the web to be full advice about how to prevent your car from being tracked within days of such a system going live, if not actually beforehand, and I'm sure there'll be plenty who try it. Yes, GPS tracking may happen, but I think it'll turn out to be a failure.

I also feel very strongly that it's to be avoided in any event for privacy and civil liberties reasons, so I'd be dead set against any bargaining and negotiating to try to lessen the pain. To me it'd be up there with trying to strike a deal with a burglar so that he'll only steal the TV and not the hi-fi... for now anyway. Not a path I think we should even consider starting to walk down. However, that's not relevant to the point of road safety, training and graduated licences. Like I said to SafeSpeed before, I'm sure graduated licences linked to additional training can play a part, and I'm sure we need incentives to make that additional training desirable (that it should also be effective goes without saying). I just haven't been convinced by the speed incentive yet.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

In my day, Paul - we had no advisory limits on corners - best advice given to me was " take it at a slow speed and as you get confidence and skill , then speed up through it" -
Problem is today - our young drivers just passing test are not told"YOU HAVE JUST MET THE MINIMUMSTANDARD" - they think(possibly like you and me - got driving licence - we can drive) -the Driving Standards Agency needs to advise drivers on passng test - "you have passed the test- now you learn to drive", or words to that effect - possibly even a mandatory plate , and even a cold stop by BIB(IF THERE'S ANY LEFT) for an educational chat -

One question was how we get Mr & Mrs Average to undertake extra training.

What about looking at it from another angle and saying that anyone who causes an accident or is convicted for dangerous driving HAS to satisfactorily complete some level of advanced retraining?

A further question, probably worth a thread of its own, at what point do we consider someone a bad enough driver to remove their licence permanently? This arises from having watched UKs worst drivers a while back and seeing people happily telling us how they'd had 20+ crashes. Do we really want someone like that sharing the road with us?

But a licence is only a bit of paper - our local paper lists Magistrate Court convictions, and the number of driving without insurance and driving without a licence convictions is quite high, only comes behind TV licence offences. The penalties however are to my view pathetic:

Driving without insurance: £160 + £35 costs + 6 points
Failing to produce documents: £50 + £35 costs
Driving without appropriate Licence, Insurance or Test Certificate: £450 + £42 costs
Driving without Licence and Insurance (previous record): £375 + £43 costs + 12 Months Disqualification
Driving while disqualified, and without Insurance: 12 Month Community Order + 40 hours community work + £70 costs

20 people convicted of using a colour television without a Licence: 1 x £300 + £55 costs, 3 x £225 + £55 costs, 3 x £200 + £55 costs, etc.

Two points really:

Driving a TV and driving a Car get fairly similar penalties without a licence.

People do carry on driving without a licence - the list above is just those unlucky enough to have been pulled over. When was the last time that you were pulled over - I have never been.

No, so I'd definately say that there has to be some cut off point. Driving is a privelege and not a right. It should occur to someone that they need additional training after having several accidents, but some people believe that they are just unfortunate things that happen without cause, just a series of coincidences. If this thought of additional training is not coming naturally to them then we need to legislate for it. How we do that I'm not sure. If after the additional training they still continue to have accidents then surely we must have to think about revoking their licence.

Here are some incentives that you could give to Master Drivers in the
London Area :

1. Blocks of parking-bays reserved for 'Master-Drivers only'.
2. Concessionary rates for the Congestion Zone.
3. Fast-Tracking for any Master Drivers aspiring to be Taxi Drivers.

Good name. It's been suggested before that an advanced licence would carry some additional cachet, but I've never been that convinced myself. But "Master Driver"? I'd feel pretty good about "Master Driver" being written in block caps across my licence. I like the parking and Kengestion charge ideas too. I'm convinced now, where do I sign up?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Would it be graded more:

Qualified Drivers: Bachelor Driver
Advanced Driver: Master Driver
Very Advanced Driver: Doctor Driver

Of course Bachelor along with Spinster is no longer allowed as it is now considered obsolete http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4141996.stm. I don't know what the Universities are going to do about it!

I was thinking more like the various sailing qualfications. Could there be a motoring equivalent to Competent Crew, Day Skipper, Coastal Skipper etc up to Ocean Yachtmaster. The sailing qualifications have far more levels than the roads require unless we want licences that read "Long Distance Motorway Car Master" or something, but the names sound good and might be a source of inspiration. Or perhaps it's just be but I always liked the sound of "Yachtmaster" (look, to someone with only RYA windsurf 2 "Yachtmaster" sounds cool, okay ). A lot better than if it had been "regular", "A" and "A+" or something.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I'd like my licence to be gold coloured!

Mine already is

Yeah, but does it say "Driving Licence" or "No Worries"?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein