Safe Speed Forums

Hi peeps, great site so i just had to post something!. Since I got my 3 points in July 2003 I've been ultra careful in abiding speed limits to ensure I dont get any more. Most insurance companies and job applications will accept 3points but no more. But, what i've found is that its become far more dangerous for me, my passengers and other road users as I comply. For example, near me are some long,wide and straight residential roads (South Ruislip) where the speed limit is 30mph but the average must be 45mph! So as I stick to 30 I am overtaken, drivers behind are too close and they generally get annoyed. What gets me annoyed though is when peeps slow to 30 past a gatso on a 40 or 50 road. Yes, the sudden slowdown for a gotya is more dangerous so maybe, just maybe the extended length speed control stuff such as in Nottingham is safer.

No. If you believe it does you are suffering from dimentia brought on by driving 'woggle-eyed'

Hi Harrovian. To answer your question, slower doesn't guarantee safer on it's own as I'm sure you've worked out. Going at a speed appropriate for your car, your abilities and your surroundings is safer. That might mean slower, but not necessarily so. Far more important, in the words of the song, is keeping your beady eye on the road ahead... and around . Got no argument with you about people slamming the anchors on for Gatsos, but many round here worry about SPECS systems even more so. I've been on part of the Nottingham one and hated every inch, far more than I did when I came across a SPECS system on motorway roadworks (M1 I think it was). On the motorway I was at least able to set the cruise and watch the road, though I'd have preferred to drive at a sensible speed and be given some latitude if I crept over. In Nottingham it was far, far worse. I found I had to pay far too much attention to the speedo than I was comfortable with, and from what I remember there were driveways and side roads that needed my attention far more. Slower wasn't safer there.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Here in Spain, slow driving is an officially recorded statistic by Trafico, the government body responsible for the roads, as being responsible for 20 + % of accidents. The UK has the best low accident rates in Europe, possible the World. We must admit that we are all human and accidents are going to occur and live with them as long as all drivers are legal (not drunk or on drugs, vehicle in to condition, no driving while tired, etc, etc).

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Brian Deller, author of the book, Motoring in Spain
www.spainvia.com

But theres nothing to stop us trying to reduce the amount of accidents - most of them are not inevitable and most are preventable. It's how you prevent them that's the problem. As most people on this site agree, automated enforcement of speed limits is (EDIT) NOT the way - we need to find better methods thats all.

You sure that's what you meant, mate?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Oops! Thats not what I meant at all!

Automatic enforcement is NOT the way! Sorry about that, missed the 'not' out.

Cripes - for a minute there, I thought Capri2.8i and Renault1.4i (i.e. me) could start an slowpoke's action group.

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I stole this .sig

We could, but then again we would never make it anywhere on time

Yes, but you could take in all the lovely scenery!

But unfortunately if you're looking at the scenery whatever speed you're doing (except zero), you're not paying attention to the road, i.e. this is not proper observation.
As I've discovered via the IAM, going slow with proper observation makes you safe but sure as hell aggravates other drivers.

Yes – we need to chill out. Sadly, there are many stressed out people among the driving community who show little patience. I reckon it is part of the 'me-first' culture that dominates our roads. I read somewhere that narcissistic personality disorder is a condition where the sufferer has fantasies of unlimited power and brilliance. Are motorists especially prone to this form of conceit?

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I stole this .sig

Nope. Just politicians - worst afflicted are those at local council and cabinet minister level.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

We might grumble about our politicians, yet history shows that our politics have made us into a relatively successful country. Odd that - how can that be?

Overtaking aside, all the traffic goes at the pace of the slowest traffic. Some drivers want to go fast, and some want or need to go more slowly. So the problem of tailgating is basically a problem of culture clash. I’ve never heard of a slow driver tailgating a faster one (!), so it seems to me that the speed kings should show some maturity and patience and put their fantasies of unlimited power and brilliance to one side! And the real slow coaches should pull their socks up. But fifty-odd in the 60 zones or 25ish in the 30 zone is not ‘slow’ – those kinds of speeds are OK, and only a clod-head could complain that 27 in the 30 zone is ‘too slow’!

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I stole this .sig

Our politics have made us successful? I think that's highly debateable. Think of all the innovations over the last couple of hundred years that have benefitted our society. Very few had much to do with politicians, though they may well have enabled politicians to get on the bandwagon or do something else as a result. But when left to their own devices I think politicians usually do get a bit power-crazed, especially in local government where ambition so often outstrips ability, and in the heart of central government where it seems that the longer a cabinet minister stays the more likely it is they'll end up with a God complex (PMs doubly so). IMO the best thing politicians can do for us is to leave well alone as much as possible. The best thing we can do for them is to put up a very high wall around the Palace of Westminster when they're all inside for the opening of Parliament or something, and then lock 'em all in. Individual MPs will then only be allowed home when they achieve something worth the 57 grand or so we pay them.
Some of them might never get out.


Oh yeah, overtaking. Right back on topic.

It's called nose-gating driving so slowly that your rear end gets dangerously close to the vehicle behind.


Being serious again now. Actually this is one of those times where I have to agree largely with what you've said. Damn - that hurts . Strip away the crap about "fanstasies of unlimited power and brilliance" as I suspect that most of the time it's simply a desire to get from A to B as quickly and safely as possible. I grant you there are idiots out there who think they're God's gift to driving, but they're in the minority and chavved up ten year old hatchbacks aren't too hard to spot. The rest just get frustrated when forced to go slower, often considerably slower, than necessary. Sometimes it's an artic obeying their 40 limit, sometimes it's someone about 500 years old with a tartan blanket on the parcel shelf and wearing a hat. And sometimes it's me when I'm just boodling about in no particular hurry, though unlike Mr 16th Century I have the courtesy to get out of the f ing way of other road users, or at least assist them overtaking as much as I can.

I think there's two problems here. First is that courtesy is becoming an increasingly rare coin on our roads. Driving would certainly be more pleasant and probably a bit safer if we changed that. But I think the loss of courtesy is at least in part due to the increase in frustration felt by many drivers at having to go unnecessarily slowly. Change that and we could take some of the stress out of motoring and make it a bit better for everyone. So I say encourage overtaking, perhaps by marking areas where a safe overtake may be possible. At the least get rid of the bloody obstacle courses in the middle of the road that sometimes make overtaking a cyclist tricky, never mind a slow artic. Sure, we teach drivers how to do it safely as well, and those who don't want to shouldn't feel pressurized into doing so. But on that point, if you're a driver who for whatever reason doesn't want to overtake, the rule should be "Shit or get off the pot" - either overtake or give someone else the opportunity to do so. It's only common courtesy after all.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I agree Gatsobait, and also believe Basingwerk is on the money here.

I travelled from Manchester to Pembrokeshire recently, a journey of 225 miles, nearly all on single carriageway A roads. Driving to the conditions and keeping safety at the top of the agenda, I could have done this journey in 4.5 hours. However, thanks to all the slowpokes I inevitably encountered, it took 7 hours, much of it at 35mph on roads good for 60 or higher.

If you think this is a trivial issue and that we should just be more patient, just try a long journey on single carriageway roads. 2.5 hours lost time is not trivial IMO.

It is if the 30 limit is patently too low for the road in question - which it very often is nowdays.
The kind of thing I find unacceptable is like someone doing say, 35 in a 40 zone, coming towards some traffic lights which then change - they get through but you don't. And then you stand at the traffic lights watching what was previously a clear road ahead filling up with trucks and farm tractors.
If that isn't being inconsiderate, I don't know what is.

BTW you still haven't answered my question on the other thread.

Cheers
Peter

25 or 27mph in a 30 zone will certainly, on occasions, be too slow. Equally, it will certainly, on occasions, be too fast.

The commendably strict 'old fashioned' headmistress of my sons' pre-prep imparted a few 'golden rules' to her charges:

1. Always be kind to others
2. Always carry a handkerchief in your pocket
3. Never dawdle

Do they/we have the balance about right, because it works as good or better than many other places?



That’s an interesting idea, and perhaps we need a minimum speed limit to deal with it. And speed cameras to police the minimum speed limit! Yessiree!



Well, I’ve given you the idea of minimum speed cameras, so you can be disagreeable about that for a long time!



That’s the part I liked writing the most! It was aimed directly at the Jeremy Clarkson brigade!



They get to be 500 years old by driving safely!



I think its more about the rise of a greedy and selfish ‘me-first’ culture – it’ll all end in tears.



These tailgating clods self-generate their own stress. They get off on it. They'll finally get wise when they have 9 points.



Yes, section 125 should be edited to say:

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I stole this .sig

No, I think they haven't and in some ways we're beginning to resemble a cross between a banana republic and the DDR, though I concede it's yet to become as bad as either. On top of that our leaders can't seem to decide whether they want the UK to be part of the federal European dream or the 51st state of the USA. I could go on and on, but this isn't the place for it. Suffice to say that we live in an over regulated and increasingly unpleasant country.


Just as bad as the type we have now IMO, and much the same aruments apply. There are times when the minimum speed won't be safe, drivers will have to look at their speedo when passing the scams or drive considerably faster to make damn sure they're over the the trigger speed, etc etc. There you go, you wanted me to disagree, so I've obliged.


Oh yeah, must check what time Top Gear is on tomorrow night. Nyer nyer . Seriously though, I never miss it, so does that make me part of the Clarkson brigade? I find him and the other presenters entertaining, though some of the cars they say they like are boot ugly if you ask me. Still, I'll be watching as usual, and if they get on to road policies I'll probably be nodding agreement at the TV over my cuppa. I suspect I probably am one of the Clarkson brigade then, but from all I've said do you think I have "fantasies of unlimited power and brilliance"? if so one of us needs a head check... and it's not me . I like fast cars if they're also beautiful, and fast driving if it's also appropriate, but that's as far as it goes. Unlimited power? My car maxes out at 147 or so according to the book (IIRC), but I've never been anywhere near it and don't intend to in the future either. Unlimited brilliance? Hardly. Like I've said many times before, I can't even definitely say I'm above average because no-one can tell me what average actually is.


No, I suspect they drink formaldehyde or something . IMO there are two types of old drivers - good, safe and courteous types, and Mr Magoos. Virtually nothing in between and roughly evenly split. I'm sure you'll remember that Mr Magoo rarely, if ever, got into trouble himself, but he created havoc for everyone around him.


Shades of the same thing I think. But whetver the cause fuelling the frustration with traffic calming schemes (an oxymoron if ever there was one), unrealistic limits, and removal of potential overtaking areas etc is madness.


You're kidding aren't you? Who's handing out points to tailgaters? Not the scams and Talivans.


Sounds good to me. There'd be a lot more of the first bit going on if there was some of the second bit as well. Quid pro quo. If I don't know the area well enough to overtake I should hang back and allow myself to be overtaken rather than sit close enough to the vehicle in front of me to prevent safe overtaking. In turn this will hopefully promote some understanding and consideration from the drivers behind me. Still requires the authorities to design roads for safe overtaking opportunities of course, but the point I'm making is that understanding is easier when the other person isn't creating a 15 car queue by failing to overtake and preventing anyone else from doing so. Thinking "maybe he's new or doesn't know the area" inevitably changes into "why doesn't the selfish arsehole let somebody by" if you're stuck behind them for long enough. Considerate driving is a two way process.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein