Safe Speed Forums

Bought a Snooper unit from eBay the other day, since the talivans in Fife are now getting to saturation point. Was warned that they trigger a fair few false alarms in town , so opted only to use it on main roads... On the way to work it stayed silent, apart from going mad at the temporary traffic lights set up for roadworks, which apparently contain a type of radar.

Couldnt believe it when i passed a Talivan with the camera pointing straight at me, and not a peep from the detector!!

Do the mobile vans use some other kind of non radar system???

err yeah

AFAIK they all use Frank Garretts imported LTI20-20 laser device

First thing - which Snooper detector did you get?? They really aren't up to much, with the exception of the S5, in terms of radar detection. The GPS units with the radar heads aren't too bad either but they are still a million miles from units like the Bel 990i/550, Speedcheetah and such like.

Secondly - laser detectors will only alert if they are within the (narrow) targetting beam of the laser gun and that means that you've already been clocked. This is a well known trait of these detectors and they are all as bad as each other in this respect.

Thirdly - I'm not entirely sure if this is the forum to discuss this sort of thing. UK Speedtraps was IMHO the definitive guide to the effectiveness of speed trap countermeasurse, but Steve Warren hasn't been updating it as often of late, but most of the advice still holds true. The fact is that 85-90% of the detectors on the market are useless against GATSOs, and 99.9% useless as a defence against laser traps on their own.

Its a 715iS .... I know not a great unit but I was interested in seeing whether the things worked before laying out £300 plus.

I can easily sell it again on eBay.

Looks like there's no real way of detecting the mobile scameravans then

Yes they are - on their own.

You need a jammer. They are NOT illegal in the UK - yet. And they work. Believe me, they do.

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

i would be wary as you could be open to a 'preventing an officer executing his duties' charge, without a very good excuse for having it

I wasn't going to mention jammers (but the link to ukspeedtraps gives plenty of advice about their effectiveness plus an anecdotal warning with regards to their use!!)



PS. The Snooper 715iS was the second-worst radar detector I have ever owned in terms of false alerts and inability to spot GATSOs in time. Don't use its
(in)effectiveness to guage if it would be worth spending more on one as you gets what you pays for. The difference between the bad detectors and the decent ones is as marked as the difference between a kids' toy plastic hammer and a good Draper one!!

Features to look out for are the ability select which bands are on or off (not just X band blocking as most false alerts these days happen on wideband Ka), and very high K-band sensitivity as that's where the GATSOs are. I'd recommend ONLY the Valentine 1, Bell990i/550/945i or at a push the 330 if you don't plan on going abroad, or the Speedcheetah.

One I'd love to take a look at is the Whistler 1793 as it has fully selectable bands (the only one in the range that has this feature) and has been reported in the States to have very good ability to detect POP (instant on, short burst) radar, which suggests extremely good sensitivity, yet is about half the price of the BEL units. Might be worth importing one considering the exchange rates at the moment.....

(Sorry, going off on one again. This should really be in General Chat...)

Final word from me on this. Tried 'Road Angel'? I was given one as a gift - the buyer chose it because it was the one recommended by EVO mag. It works by GPS from a speedtrap database. You have to update it regularly online, but it's really good. It warns of every single camera, perm or temp. There are no 'false positives', and even active cams targetting traffic on the opposing carriageway are ignored. I've had it 9 months and it's never missed one. Also warns of blackspots. It's a bit pricey, but in the vindictive, Stalinist climate of the scamera era it may save you from a ban.

(PS I don't have shares in Road Angel!)

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

Is there any example on record of such a charge leading to conviction?

Even if convicted of some such charge, consider:

1. You could not be successfully prosecuted for speeding: if the laser is jammed it returns an 'error' reading = no evidence of you exceeding the posted limit will exist. You maintain you were under the limit, and 'the prosecution were able to offer no evidence'

2. The device cannot be confiscated, as it's NOT illegal to own one, fit it to your vehicle and have it switched on, and it's your personal, legal property. This is the law as it stands. If a ban on jammers is introduced, and the law is effectively framed, this will change the situation. But not for the moment.

Apparently 'thousands' of jammers are in regular daily use in the UK. It's for each driver to weigh up the relative risks, and decide if they think licence protection is worth the extra cost & aggro.

Warning: they are illegal in France. If it's visible, Pierre Plodde will confiscate it straight away (but that's all he will do). So if travelling there, wise to leave it at home.

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

Hmmm....jammers....

They may not be illegal per se, but be very careful if it's the type that transmits a signal to block the radar - you will certainly find yourself the wrong side of various Communications acts....

And they only really work against civilian manned cameras - as the driver who was using one against me the other day found out - my check device may not have registered him, but my eyeball certainly did as he shot past my volvo....

So did him over a measured mile on the video instead

Don't confuse laser jammers with radar jammers. Radar jammers emit RF waves on the X/K/Ka band and this is specifically 'prohibited' by the fact that all RF transmitters on these bands have to be licensed, and no-one will issue a member of the general public with a license to use one - therefor they cannot be used legitimately by you or I.

There is the 'grey' area that automatic door opener sensors also operate on these bands and do not have to be licensed. However, I digress.....

Laser 'jammers' merely emit infra-red light, and there is no law requiring light emmiters to be licenced nor are there any restrictions on their use (otherwise every lightbulb, torch and TV remote would be restricted).

Yes r11co, for clarity I was just talking about laser jammers. I've never had a 'radar jammer', and honestly didn't know they existed. (You can go overboard with all this precautionary technology, and have to draw the line somewhere).

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

They don't exist as their construction and use is specifically outlawed in all counries that use radar speed traps. However, it is possible to make one using off-the-shelf parts (what was that I was saying about automatic door operators..... )

I have a Road angel 2 and also a Snooper 815is, the RA2 is a great piece of kit, it is only really limited by the database which it relies on for its alerts. Around my area there are a number of mobile camera van sites, these are not in the database, however you can manually store these. I paid £315 for mine, and think it is well worth the money

can anyone justify a police car on a saturday morning using a hand held camera on the M5? i passed it a few weeks ago and since the road was near enough empty and dry/clear, why was it there? i DARE anyone to claim it was in aid of road safety

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

I've gone down the road of buying a GPS PDA Handheld PC thingy, and then paying £21 for a piece of software called POI Warner, then downloaded and installed the camera database from PocketGPSWorld.

Database was last updated 31st March - but you can add your own if you spot them. Handy when I'm in places I don't know, and the GPS is more accurate than the speedo. Its updated by everyone on the site including members.

So all told I've got...

Mapping for the whole of Western Europe
Constantly updating directions
Speed camera/traffic camera alerts
Accurate speedo facility
Little PC to do other odds and ends on

and no Road Angel subscriptions in sight. Paid £371 all told.

A radar detector will not pick up Talivans as most of these use laser (infra-red light) systems such as the LTI 20/20.

Many radar (and GPS) detectors offer a laser detection module, either built-in or as an optional attachment/unit.

These are of limited efectivesness though. If the laser beam is being pointed right at you, then the camera operator will already have a speed reading by the time you get the warning beeps.

If the laser beam is being pointed elsewhere, your device may detect the "scatter" from the laser beam bouncing off the other car (or whatever) and give you time to slow down before the beam is pointed at you.

So a laser detector is a better defence than nothing at all.

But the only thing that will protect you from Talivans properly is a laser diffuser. On detection of a laser beam, this fires a false signal back to the speed trap, preventing it from getting a reading and giving you plenty of time to slow down before they can take another reading. However, diffusers are not tolerated by the Police like simple detectors are. Although there is no specific law prohibiting their use, you will end up with some explaining to do if the Police catch you using one. If they think for a minute that you're using it as a "licence to speed", a prosecution for "obstructing a police officer in the execution of his duty" is likely.

Hope this helps!

the £10 was grocerys i bought on the way home

Imagine your surprise at driving on what must be one of the few remaining stretches of NSL single carriageway within 10 miles of even a single place of habitation, let alone an entire group of houses.



As you get closer, if you happen to be looking in exactly the right direction at exactly the right moment, and provided there aren't any other vehicles around to block your view at that moment, you'll just about be able to make out an ancient, badly faded sign marking the new lower limit you're about to enter. Chances are unless you're a regular user of this road, you won't even know the sign is there.



Your vehicle judders as you pass over yet another piece of woefully maintained road surface. The local council can't even find the money to maintain the existing road markings, let alone start adding new ones.



You enter the residential area, see the camera warning signs, think "my experience tells me it's highly unlikely that the limit is still NSL this close to houses, but the road is nice and wide, with footpaths set well back from the kerb, and with no street lights of any description... if this is anything less than a 40 limit then the local planners are having a laugh", and slow down to what you consider to be a perfectly safe 38-40, entirely in keeping with other roads of this character you're familiar with.



You see an approaching motorist giving you signals which you, in this day and age of high tech highway robbery, correctly interpret as "oi mate, there's a talivan up ahead". Still convinced that the road is a 40 limit, you double-check your speed to make sure it's still in the 38-40 range, and you start scanning for evidence of said talivan tucked away as good as out of sight - knowing that the local SCP use a very plain set of markings on their vans which make them look exactly like a perfectly harmless white van from anything more than 10 yards away, making it even harder to spot than it already is.



Nearly 2 weeks later, after practically all memory of the journey has gone from your mind, the dreaded brown envelope slips through your letterbox. You head straight for pepipoo to refresh your memory of the sequence of events to be followed, and your licence and bank balance remain blissfully unaware of your encounter with yet another mobile mugging machine set up in a prime spot to scam the safe, essentially law-abiding, motorist.



I, like others on this forum, welcome the input from people in-the-know, but only if they're willing to accept that in the real world things aren't quite as rosy and driver-friendly in the world of speed enforcement as they make it out to be. It may well be the case that in your particular SCP area, you play everything absolutely by the book - all your talivans are clearly marked up so as to be instantly recognisable, and are always parked up in location which permit oncoming drivers to see them well in advance of the point at which you'd consider pinging them, all the speed limit signage on the roads in your areas is well maintained, clearly visible, and 100% legal, and there are no dodgy limits/camera locations which have little or nothing to do with a genuine desire to improve road safety. Sadly, for too many motorists around the country, this isn't the case.

im