Safe Speed Forums

I've been having a discussion on a classic car forum, where another poster insists that breaking a speed limit is a CRIMINAL offence.

Me, I'm not so sure, but would certainly like a definite answer. This chap syas that his recent application for home insurance included the question"Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence other than speeding?"

Now I readily admit that my knowledge is a little outdated, but I have always been led to believe that most driving offences are CIVIL offences, not criminal. My understanding until recently is that the only criminal driving offences are drunk driving and causing death by dangerous driving, along with more recent laws concerning dangerous driving likely to endanger life.

I have seen "speeding" in recent years refered to as a "criminal" offence, but usually by those pushing a "more cameras", "bigger fines", "the driver is always at fault" agenda.

So, which offences are "criminal" and which are merely "civil"?

Any clarification greatly appreciated.

My understanding is that speeding is a criminal offence, but is not an arrestable offence. By definition, anything that you can be convicted for in a court of law is a criminal offence.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Oh ,how I wish for the old days when IG would pop up to give us an opinion .
You may eexceed the limit ,BUT have you been charged/found guilty .Even then getting a FPN ( imho) is not being found guilty - you've only taken the ticket to avoid it getting any further ,
No Court has given you a sentance -it's not gotten tat far .
S

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Speeding is a criminal offence but it is a misdemeanour rather than a felony. I will leave it as an exercise for the student to look up the distinction.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

For the purposes of supplying a record of criminal convictions to people such as employers this is carried out via the Criminal Records Bureau. Their own definition of "criminal record" is the same as that used on the Police National Computer (PNC). An offence appears on PNC if it is a recordable offence as defined by the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000. This is reinforced by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, which states that convictions become "spent" after a certain amount of time and so do not appear on a "criminal record" generated by the CRB (but will appear on PNC).

So, whether you have a "criminal record" in the sense of someone performing a CRB check on you depends on what you were convicted for (is it a recordable offence?) and how long ago it was (is it spent?).

For an enhanced CRB check all offences are recorded and disclosed. As well as any not-guilty verdicts, and in some cases disclosure is via a letter from a senior police officer stating information they consider relevant, in that case. That information is confidential and disclosure to the applicant is an offence.

And, driving without insurance is a criminal offence (s. 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988) but is not recordable so it doesn't generate a PNC/CRB criminal record.

Some offences may appear on PNC if you were convicted of a recordable offence in the same proceedings. If you were convicted of drink driving (a recordable offence) and driving without insurance (a non-recordable offence) both would be recorded: Reg 3(3) of the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Botach. A return to those days was what I was hoping for with this one.

Jomukuk. Most informed answer of all thus far, but can you provide a bit more?

For instance, is breaking the speed limit a recordable offence as defined by the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000? I suspect your answer would be "yes", but am not fully certain. If so, then would not all offences that result in points on ones license also constitute having a criminal record, as I would imagine that they too would appear on the PNC? Therefore, under the aforementioned definition, ALL motoring offences would be "criminal".

And therefore, I wonder why the chap I referred to in my OP's house insurers singled out "speeding" rather than saying "Do you have a criminal record other than motoring offences?" Or, "Do you have a criminal record other than drunk driving, driving without insurance, causing death by.......etc, etc.....?"

Speeding, taken as a single offence, is not "recordable"
If you are prosecuted for no insurance and speeding, as a single prosecution, then speeding will be recorded as well.
Recordable offences are, in the main, ones for which a period of imprisonment can be an option.
As far as I know speeding is not on that list YET although many others are.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Shush -don't give BRAKE ideas

And Maaarrghk! - call it conspiracy theory ,but how many BIB have been peed off by the constant abrasive attitude by the camera fraternity ,who are treated a lot more politely than they treat our resident BIB .At one time we had a thriving BIB community giving more to the forum than they took .I for one (espite my years behind the wheel ) can say I found these proffessorsof driving had a lot of knowledge to give .When I started driving and had a motoring question ,I always found these gents of the road willing to listen and educate .When in London ,some 40 od years ago ,I decided to fit a fog & driving lamp to the front .First port of call -Traffic cop -who didn't laugh ,but passed out solid advice .He did appreciate anovice asking an expert for help .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The difference with a speeding offence, as has been said many times before, is that it is 'the ultimate victimless crime’. (Not the only one mind).

If you keep lowering the speed limit you will inevitably catch more speeders just as you would ‘drunk’ driving if you halved the drink limit or prosecute more rapists if the age of consent was doubled.

With insurance there are no conditions other than being insured; you are either insured or not. The same could be said of speed but, thankfully, even ACPO recognise the absurdity of pedantic and petty speed enforcement. (Unlike BRAKE).

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Thank you all for your help on this one and apologies for letting the thread fester on its own this past week.

I spread myself far too thinly over the internet these days.

Botach, I had the good fortune to be taugh to drive (over 30 years ago) by a retired Road Traffic Police Inspector. He became a driving test examiner and once fully retired, gave driving lessons at good rates for those who could provide their own vehicle.

Although taking an "official" line on limits being obeyed, I can always remember him having the following to say:-

"Your speed should be according to the prevailing conditions, but where safe to travel at the speed limit you should be no less than 5mph below it so that you do not cause an obstruction to other drivers. You will fail your test for driving too slowly and causing an obstruction is an offence".

I guess that the singling out of "speeding" by this chap on the other forums home insurers but a bee in my bonnet. Hence my starting this thread.

Sounds very odd that any insurer would want to know about any car criminal offences as they are not as previously stated 'recordable', they are often non-endorsable.
I have added various links below which will give you some precise clarification in this.
http://criminalcheck.globalchoices.co.uk/?id=21
http://www.met.police.uk/information/faq.htm
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... /DG_195809
ACRO - http://www.acpo.police.uk/NationalPolic ... cates.aspx
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJustic ... /DG_199794
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/agencies-p ... odies/crb/

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/pow ... d-traffic/
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=31864
I appreciate that few of the links above, directly answer your interesting query. I'd ask the Ins Company directly precisely why they need, the information and exactly what information.

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