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No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

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SafeSpeedv2

Post subject: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 04:03

Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7357
Location: Highlands

Buckinghamshire Advertiser here

Buckinghamshire Advertiser -Lucy Cork wrote:

No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims
By Lucy Cork, Buckinghamshire Advertiser Apr 20th 2011

POLICE have criticised drivers 'flouting' the new 30mph limit on the A40 in Denham as it emerged that 420 more drivers have been caught by the new speed camera during the first two weeks of April.

When the speed cameras were first installed last month, 1,000 drivers were flashed within the first four days. Motorists angrily described the cameras as 'unfair' and said there were no clear signs warning them the limit had been lowered from 50mph to 30mph.

Several readers have got in touch to complain about the cameras, and an action group is being formed to appeal against the speeding convictions.

New figures from Thames Valley Police show that 429 offences have been recorded on the camera since March 30. Chief Inspector Gill Wootton said this public outcry is 'unacceptable'.
She said: "I am disappointed by the number of drivers that are evidently flouting the new speed limits in this area. It was introduced to reduce the risk of accidents and to increase public safety."

Louise Graham, 49, from Chalfont St Peter, said she feels 'humiliated' and 'disgusted' by being punished with an 'unnecessary' speed-awareness course and a £400 fine after travelling at what she thought was below the speed limit.
She said: "I saw a sign for 50mph, but it was chaos on the road with bollards everywhere and another sign for 30mph close by, so I braked down to 34mph. I was flashed by the camera and I am really upset - this is terribly unfair as I am such a careful and conscientious driver, and always have been.
"I think it is an absolute disgrace that we are being treated like this, and I am desperate to find other people to make a group to fight back."

Another Beaconsfield motorist said: "How can this possibly be justified or enforced when signs are missing, poorly placed or incorrect?

"There is now one large 30mph sign on the dual carriageway just after the A412 lights, but unfortunately for drivers - and not those operating this scam - it's very easy to miss this sign if you are turning left on to the A40 from the A412.
"I'm sure a couple of weeks ago there was one on each side, but now the nearside one seems to have disappeared again."
Inspector Wootton said: "It's unacceptable that people feel this speed limit does not apply to them."

For more information about forming an action group, visit www.pepipoo.com.
**What do you think? Email your views for our letters page to bucks news@trinitysouth.co.uk. Please remember to include your full name and address.

Enabling a dis-respect for the speed limit will do nothing but continue to break the police / public relationship. Motorists obviously feel aggrieved with the setup and feel it is totally unjustified. Setting limits appropriately is very important. This sounds very low for the situation but can anyone shed more light on this ?

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malcolmw

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 07:43

Gold Member

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border

But has it made the location any safer?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

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Steve

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:37

Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London

Are there any road works on that 2/3 lane dual carriageway, or is the limit change (possibly done by simply removing the 50 signs) permanent?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

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Big Tone

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:44

Gold Member

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place

Nothing will change until more Med Hughes, Brunstrom’s and Weepej’s get caught in their own snare or approval of a bent system.

Once again notice how it just talks about the offence of speeding without a shred of evidence put forward that it has made any difference to safety or the accident rate.

They have done the same thing going into Birmingham. A once :40:

is now

on a dual carriageway and there isn’t one single driver including traffic police that I’ve followed, on two occasions to date, who respects it.

I will be emailing trinitysouth...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

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SafeSpeedv2

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 14:16

Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7357
Location: Highlands

Well let's face it even if they were claiming an accident drop then I'd be shouting RTTM and have to look at long term trends to understand the complete & true picture anyway. Looking at the accident causes is essential and road layouts that may have links to some of the accidents. Road or sign (etc) improvements are far more likely to start addressing causes too. Motorist education and guides to 'how to travel more safely' is key too.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

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PeterE

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 14:56

Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

Steve wrote:

Are there any road works on that 2/3 lane dual carriageway, or is the limit change (possibly done by simply removing the 50 signs) permanent?

A temporary pedestrian crossing has been installed following the demolition of a footbridge after a collision with a crane - see here. Whether the limit will go back up to :50:

or indeed

when it's all finished is anyone's guess, of course :roll:

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

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theboxers

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 16:00

User

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 02:25
Posts: 331

PeterE wrote:

Steve wrote:

Are there any road works on that 2/3 lane dual carriageway, or is the limit change (possibly done by simply removing the 50 signs) permanent?

A temporary pedestrian crossing has been installed following the demolition of a footbridge after a collision with a crane - see here. Whether the limit will go back up to :50:

or indeed

when it's all finished is anyone's guess, of course :roll:

It took several (maybe 4 or 5 IDNRE) years for the lowered limit on Gravel Hill near Croydon to be raised back to the former level, 30 to 40, following a similar incident. We now have a lights controlled tram/pedestrian crossing at that location. The bridge will never be replaced.

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GreenShed

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 19:08

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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 13:03
Posts: 685

Hello playmates!

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

Buckinghamshire Advertiser ....Blurb....

A confused hypocrite {In Greenshed's Opinion}from Oxforshire wrote:

Louise Graham, 49, from Chalfont St Peter, said she feels 'humiliated' and 'disgusted' by being punished with an 'unnecessary' speed-awareness course and a £400 fine after travelling at what she thought was below the speed limit.
She said: "I saw a sign for 50mph, but it was chaos on the road with bollards everywhere and another sign for 30mph close by, so I braked down to 34mph :roll:

. I was flashed by the camera and I am really upset - this is terribly unfair as I am such a careful and conscientious driver, and always have been.
"I think it is an absolute disgrace that we are being treated like this, and I am desperate to find other people to make a group to fight back."

Louise thinks it "terribly unfair" after slowing to 34mph for a 30mph speed limit that she has been offered a speed awareness course. Can anyone not see the irony in that?

Another confused {In Greenshed's Opinion} Oxfordshire driver wrote:

"How can this possibly be justified or enforced when signs are missing, poorly placed or incorrect?

Are signs necessary at this location? Is it a 30mph because thee is a system of street lighting and signs are not allowed except for signs were the speed limit changes?

The important question is: Where are the signs that say the speed limit is 50mph. If there are no signs that advise drivers of that how can the speed limit be 50mph? A careful contentious driver would know that if they were speed aware! :oops1:

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

Despite years of claiming this is occurring it just isn't happening is it. As long as campaigners like the "conscientious drivers" of Oxfordshire use situations like "slowed down to 34mph for a 30mph speed limit" as reasoned arguments similar campaigns are doomed I fear.

I haven't laughed so much for ages. Thanks for cheering up my day. :thumbsup:

Edited {In Greenshed's Opinion} added by Admin.

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GreenShed

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 19:13

User

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 13:03
Posts: 685

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

Have a ponder on this:
A. 100 collisions occur on this road when the average speed of the vehicles that collide is 100mph.
B. 100 collisions occur on this road when the average speed of the vehicles that collide is 40mph.

Let's just say that the cause of every one of the 100 collisions at 100mph is mirrored by the 100 collisions that occur at 40mph.

Are there more fatal and serious injuries in A. or B.?

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GreenShed

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 19:17

User

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 13:03
Posts: 685

...and there's more.

C. A man stands in the road and is hit square in the body with the front of a car at 5mph.
D. A man stands in the road and is hit square in the body with the front of a car at 70mph.

What injuries are likely at C. and D.?

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Steve

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 19:53

Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London

GreenShed wrote:

Hello playmates!

You are obviously here for a good trolling.

I guess we couldn't expect much in the way of professionalism from those affiliated with speed cameras - could we Mr RSS man, and ex CSCP employee! Your behaviour on (and off) the forums shames and discredits your entire profession. There is more but I won't elaborate; I'll use my little gems when the time comes!
Let's go on...

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

Buckinghamshire Advertiser ....Blurb....

A confused hypocrite from Oxforshire wrote:

...

Oh, so now you have resorted to misquoting quotes?

GreenShed wrote:

Quote:

Louise thinks it "terribly unfair" after slowing to 34mph for a 30mph speed limit that she has been offered a speed awareness course. Can anyone not see the irony in that?

I think the point was that she was confused with what the speed limit was. Apparently this confusion was inevitable.

You may be Mr Perfect, but if you are, that is more than likely because you have been managing speed cameras yourself, as well as acting for the prosecution in speed camera court cases; so yes you probably will be more prepared than most; perhaps this is what makes you more arrogant than most too!

GreenShed wrote:

Another confused Oxfordshire driver wrote:

"How can this possibly be justified or enforced when signs are missing, poorly placed or incorrect?

I rate my mum as a careful contentious driver (and slow to boot), yet she was caught out in exactly the same scenario: removal of the speed limit signs.

Here's another case where people like you - people who derive their income from automated enforcement - show themselves to be out of touch!

Psychology 101: it is easy to spot something new, but much more difficult to spot something that has been removed.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

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Steve

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 19:55

Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London

GreenShed wrote:

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

Have a ponder on this:
A. 100 collisions occur on this road when the average speed of the vehicles that collide is 100mph.
B. 100 collisions occur on this road when the average speed of the vehicles that collide is 40mph.

Let's just say that the cause of every one of the 100 collisions at 100mph is mirrored by the 100 collisions that occur at 40mph.

Are there more fatal and serious injuries in A. or B.?

Full marks to you for totally evading the point!

The point was about RTTM (link) and the illusion of benefit from speed cameras. Surely even you know what that is, right?

GreenShed wrote:

C. A man stands in the road...
D. A man stands in the road...

There's your problem!
What injuries are likely if that man isn't standing in the road? (using your own tactic against you)

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

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Pete317

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 21:16

Life Member

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 13:50
Posts: 2643

GreenShed wrote:

A. 100 collisions occur on this road...
B. 100 collisions occur on this road...
...
C. A man stands in the road...
D. A man stands in the road...

If such extremely weak, strawman type arguments are the best you can offer then you really don't have much of a case, do you?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

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Pete317

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 22:09

Life Member

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 13:50
Posts: 2643

How anyone can imagine that :30:

is appropriate for this road is completely beyond me. :roll:

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Last edited by Pete317 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:59, edited 1 time in total.

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SafeSpeedv2

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 00:32

Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7357
Location: Highlands

GreenShed wrote:

Have a ponder on this:
A. 100 collisions occur on this road when the average speed of the vehicles that collide is 100mph.
B. 100 collisions occur on this road when the average speed of the vehicles that collide is 40mph.
C. A man stands in the road and is hit square in the body with the front of a car at 5mph.
D. A man stands in the road and is hit square in the body with the front of a car at 70mph.

Let's just say that the cause of every one of the 100 collisions at 100mph is mirrored by the 100 collisions that occur at 40mph.
Are there more fatal and serious injuries in A. or B.?

Why should I ponder on your imaginary set up, when we can talk real data ?
Which road ? Who says that vehicles collide at the speeds you have chosen ?
what man would be stupid enough to stand in a street and await a car that happens to be paying not attention whatsoever and then takes no avoiding action whatsoever either and hits him? Or is this a dumb and dumber story?
Accidents stats do tell us of course that it depends on whether his head and chest are both damaged and then if the head has hit the A pillar too then yes he will likely die from either speed impact. It also depends on how old the man standing was too as that also alters the result slightly.

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Big Tone

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 09:22

Gold Member

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place

It’s the usual desperate routine of ‘if you don’t agree with going slower it means you don’t give a s :censored:

t about human life’.

I think it was two years ago now I was going over by Telford, to a nursing home in Wellington, and a D/C which is normally :50:

was down to one lane using :20:

cones and a big sign saying “Kill your speed not our workforce”.

There wasn’t a single person or thing in sight along this massive open-spaced area and these ‘works’ went on for weeks, so I did what everyone else was doing... :roll:

Yesterday I went into Birmingham, as I often do in my work travel, and again went from the start to finish along the new low limit of :30:

. Not one single driver followed behind me; they all overtook me on this massive D/C which had been :40:

since forever.

I thought of taking a video shot on my smart-phone of it but I don’t know how, or have the software, to edit and disguise the reg plates of a absurdlimitsandnoncompliance.mov otherwise I’d make one and post it here to show just how absurd it is – or dispel anyone’s opinion that maybe I’m making it up.

The Plan:
Lower the limits to absurd levels in order to increase non-compliance and rake in a fortune off the back of it all being done in the name of safety.

Think of the children!!! :hissyfit:

This was also the informed opinion of an IAM motorcyclist I was talking to last weekend, who were giving tuition at a fire station and looking for new members. (Concessionary rate £99 instead of £140).

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Ernest Marsh

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:19

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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere

Pete317 wrote:

How anyone can imagine that :30:

is appropriate for this road is completely beyond me. :roll:

THAT is the problem.
The road used to have a footbridge, to allow pedestrians to cross safely.
It was damaged, and is having to be replaced, and for some length of time, a temporary PELICAN type crossing has been put in place, AND a 30 limit, to allow drivers time to react to the lights.

So far so good.
But the LA have made a pigs ear with the signage, and drivers are not being adequately informed of the change of speed limit, with 50mph lollipops still visible, along with cones and paraphernalia in the road which distract because one of the THREE lanes in each direction has been closed.
Motorists ARE slowing down to a safe speed - 34 is slow enough to react to a set of crossing lights, but that is not good enough for the authorities who saw fit to install a speed camera.

They SHOULD have placed a sign warning of the change of limit - and HAVE finally done so several weeks after the changes.
They even started camera enforcement days BEFORE the 30 mph signs were in place!!!!

On the A591 approaching Windermere, there is a 50 mph limit in place, but the smaller side roads are NSL, and each has had to have signs installed to that effect.
At Black Moss, the sign has been struck - presumably by a farm vehicle, and the NSL is now presented to oncoming traffic in the 50 limit.
Despite dozens of local authority workers travelling that way, along with police and emergency services, this sign has remained this way for some weeks now.

WHO cares? Nobody until there is either an accident, or a driver is penalised for exceeding the 50mph limit, because he saw an NSL lollipop!

I hope that when this happens, the people who get paid to monitor and maintain these signs get sued - or better still, SACKED for not doing their jobs... in Cumbria AND in this debacle on the A40 in Buckinghamshire!

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SafeSpeedv2

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 14:22

Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7357
Location: Highlands

It all stems for the mis-information about how if you go slower you are safer !
Sadly they still think this is true, and so ignore all other evidence, because this "must be the answer" (Well it is NOT!), - it is awful, and shows how unfit for purpose, those in Authority are. They deserve to be sacked for incompetence, or worse manslaughter when their inability to look at all the facts and act properly, leads to 'inattention' or 'distraction' deaths.
If they were held more to account they would check and triple check before implementing anything.

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Steve

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 15:30

Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

It all stems for the mis-information about how if you go slower you are safer !

That information is usually spouted from folks who benefit by enforcing needlessly low speed limits - one of these folks has been posting in this very thread; I wonder if the casual reader can guess who!

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SafeSpeedv2

Post subject: Re: No sympathy from police for A40 speed camera victims

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 02:40

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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7357
Location: Highlands

It sure would be good if the argument against that concept, is so thoroughly simple and 'obvious' that the public could easily understand it, so that when they hear 'alternative opinions' they can see right through it immediately.

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