Safe Speed Forums

Unfortunately, but that is exactly the sort of driver that should be hit hard, all to many times they cry 'I didn't see them' - quite clearly they were not observing, not paying attention. Maybe I'm biased but as a cyclist I have two lights front, two lights rear and wear reflective gear, and I still get 'I didn't see you'.

If you load a rifle point it at them and pull the trigger it is murder or at the very least, manslaughter.

If you get in a car and through neglect or lack of observation/attention you kill it is a slap on the wrist.

In some states they have the offence of vehicular manslaughter, perhaps we should introduce something similar with lots of publicity, perhaps when people realise that they are in charge of a deadly weapon then they might seek to better thier driving.

We need a system that has both the carrot and the stick Good training, with the option for recurring assessment/improvement - something like RoSPA's scheme with bronze, silver, gold and high performance groups with corresponding discounts on insurance premiums.

And for those that persist in driving in a careless, dangerous manner, stiff penalties/sentences.

Local to my parents is a school, chapel and shops, every night there are learners (cars and mopeds) that race about, one young lad decided to play 'chicken' with a car, his moped bounced of the side of the car and he was a little bruised (by the time he hit the car the driver had stopped). The attending officer initially was not going to prosecute despite the statements from six residents and the pedestrians who were on the pavement next to the car. It eventually went to court he was fined, including costs £30 for the offence and £10 for a defective tyre. As a learner IMO he should have been fined considerably more and lost his licence.

Mind you what would you expect from Essex, they are too busy out manning mobile speed cameras.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

This was kinda the point I was making, though I agree fully with Willcoves comments re my previous post.

The blame culture is fine so long as it's not US the finger is pointing at. We (the general public, not necessarily individual investigating or regulatory bodies) expect pilots, train drivers, doctors etc to behave and perform impeccably and suffer the consequences if they dont.

Although I pointed out aviation's open reporting system in another post, I can't see how it could be made to work in the general motoring sphere. Perhaps a start would be to force offenders and those issued verbal warnings by the police, to produce some sort 'occurence' report, stating what they did and possibly why they did it.

And what will that achieve? Accidents will still happen. Believing that you can stop accidents from happening is like believing that you can end all wars. It's not going to happen. We have to accept a certain number of accidents, because we're never going to change it.
In any case, the roads aren't where the most accidents occur. More people die in accidents in their homes than on the roads. And thousands more preventable deaths occur in hospitals. Are we to prosecute all the doctors and nurses?
And even the roads aren't nearly as dangerous as they were in the past. 150 years ago there were more people killed on the streets of London alone than in the whole country nowdays. Not to mention the many thousands who succumbed to diseases from airborne and waterborne horse manure.

I agree with your last point, though.

Regards
Peter

<<And what will that achieve? Accidents will still happen. Believing that you can stop accidents from happening is like believing that you can end all wars. It's not going to happen. We have to accept a certain number of accidents, because we're never going to change it.>>

Should we throw away the Highway code?

If a driver causes an accident, it is their negligence and they are at fault.

Parents that kill their children in frustration, they do not mean it either, parents are going to lose their temper every so often it is part of the description of having kids. Do we make that acceptable for the minority that can not help themselves.

It is no differant to killing a child in a cot or in the back seat of a car.

The current status is to fine every driver for being slightly over the speed limit, in what the Government say is a way to reduce accidents.

A driver that causes an accident, has no punishment.

Our problem on our roads, is drivers need to wake up and stay alert to hazards. Making it a very clear message, that they will be prosecuted for causing an accident will make drivers more aware.

At the moment, they can just feel "ah well it is insured"

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Steve

Surely you don't mean this? We could repeal all motoring laws and accidents would be unaffected?

Anyway, you'll still have to account for the massive differences in accident rates from country to country, for example:

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I didn't realise my English was THAT bad
I didn't mean that, I didn't even say that. Let me rephrase:
Even with the best will and road-safety culture in the world, you're never going to stop ALL accidents from happening, or even people getting killed. Sure, you might reduce the number of accidents by a certain amount, but you're never going to stop all of them.
Even with the best system in the world. (hypothetically)
Much less by prosecuting drivers who have accidents.

So because we'll never eliminiate all road accidents and the fatalities caused thereby, we shouldn't bother trying to reduce the number of them?

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

That's not what I said either.

Regards
Peter

Um, not trying to be rude, but what was your point then!?



I agree, but where's the conclusion?

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

I was trying to counter the argument that someone must always be blamed and punished whenever there's an accident.
The current 'blame' culture has had a negative effect on road safety, for various reasons, among them being:
1) The best witness to any accident - often the only party who really knows what happened - is the driver involved. Said driver is hardly likely to be honest and forthcoming when they have the threat of severe punishment hanging over them. As a result, the real causes of accidents are often never established, and more of the same will happen as a consequence.
2) For the same reason, if there are no other witnesses the driver is more likely to do a runner. I don't know if it's just my imagination, but one does hear of an awful lot of 'hit and run' accidents nowdays.

IMO accidents which are caused by wilful negligence/dangerous driving should attract the full punishment of the law. Most of the rest are more effectively dealt with by retraining, except where the party involved is substantially innocent.

Regards
Peter

<<The current 'blame' culture has had a negative effect on road safety, for various reasons, >>

There is no blame culture towards those that cause accidents. The only Blame culture is put on speed, which is not the cause of the majority of an accident.

<<IMO accidents which are caused by wilful negligence/dangerous driving should attract the full punishment of the law. Most of the rest are more effectively dealt with by retraining, except where the party involved is substantially innocent.>>

There is no such thing in place to deal with drivers that cause accidents, a motorist must injure or kill someone for the Police to even record the accident.

You argument that it is acceptable to have a minor accident is bizzare.

A driver that pulls out in front of another in a 30 MPH limit may get away with a minor impact. However what if that road is a 50 mph limit.

The drivers error is exactley the same, the result however is more likly to be far more damaging if not lethal.

This blanket acceptance KILLS.

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Steve