Safe Speed Forums

You’re being clever with your words there. Increased speed from what? Zero mph presumably, knowing you.

I think you just shot yourself in your foot by saying “given the same environment”. That’s shows you recognise the environment matters and, as we all know, the environment is constantly changing. You just needed to add the word “circumstances” and you will be in bed with me at last.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Of course it is, which is why we speed up and slow down (well, most do, even if many don't slow down enough). In my mind this doesn't negate the concept of speed limits though and apparently Safe Speed agrees with me.

What I mean by same environment though is the same street at the same time given the same driving skills, driving faster is more risky.

Only if you hit something. This is best avoided by using an appropriate speed for the conditions and not just following a dumb posted limit which may, and often does, suggest a legal speed which is too fast for the conditions.

The speed I use for any given environment and situation is never a threat, or even intimidation, to other road users. Flashing signs, for me at least, are just another distraction but they may be helpful to other less experienced drivers IMHO.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

As I understand it driving too fast for the conditions is illegal, regardless of whether you are exceeding the limit or not.

No, I don’t think it is. I don’t know a single driver who has ever been done for travelling too fast for the conditions under the speed limit unless there has been an accident. Maybe you do but I certainly don’t.

I do, however, know very many drivers who have been done for speeding where it has been safe to drive at the speed they were using. There is a big difference!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Illegal or not: do speed cameras affect this factor at all?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Which effect wins?
I don't accept that you can stand by your claim when you can't even address the obvious confounding factors, especially when repeatedly prompted to do so.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I remember someone on PH trying to tell me this; it may even have been vonhosen.

I was slightly perturbed by how to numerically define an unsafe-for-the-conditions speed for legal purposes, e.g. "the speed limit is 60 but 40 is unsafe, and thus illegal".

Isn't a case of "Dangerous Driving" or "Driving without Due Care and Attention" both of which are, initially, subjectively adjudged by a police officer.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

A simple, slightly more objective test, is to judge if one is at a speed where they cannot stop in the distance they can reasonably expect to be clear.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

That test is often used as part of the assessment and , later, the prosecution of driving offences. As there is no specific offence of being unable to stop in the distance you can see to be clear the CPS proceed with either DWDC or dangerous driving ccording to the individual circustances of the case in question.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

You think wrong. In the complete absence of hazards, any speed is 100% safe and one speed is no safer than another speed. Introduce hazards into the equation and suddenly no speed is 100% safe. Because it's hazards which make a road dangerous. Our faster roads are faster because they're safer, and our slower roads are slower because they're more dangerous. A lower speed will not make a safe road any safer, nor will a lower speed on a dangerous road make the danger go away.
A lower speed may reduce the consequences of an accident, but, then again, it might not. It's in the lap of the gods. You may have one serious accident in your life, if you're unlucky. You have one throw of the dice if and when it does happen. You might throw a one, or you might throw a six. You may be KSI, or you might not be. Do you feel lucky?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Well that's what I would have thought too.

No he doesn't. It is too obvious to need stating and in the rest of your post you introduce a series of canards which are not relevant so I will not address them.

When driving on a familiar route we are all aware of the maximum speed at which certain parts of the route can be safely negotiated and stick below that speed. We even use phrases like "a 40mph" bend meaning that that is the maximum speed at which it can be negotiated and that an attempt to go round it at 50 mph will lead, at best, to a frightening skid; at worst to a fatal accident. Of course that speed varies with driver and road conditions but Weep has allowed for that in his parentheses. The faster you travel the smaller the margin for error and, beyond a certain point, that margin diminishes rapidly increasing the chances of a serious accident.







In the complete absence of hazards, any speed is 100% safe and one speed is no safer than another speed. Introduce hazards into the equation and suddenly no speed is 100% safe. Because it's hazards which make a road dangerous. Our faster roads are faster because they're safer, and our slower roads are slower because they're more dangerous. A lower speed will not make a safe road any safer, nor will a lower speed on a dangerous road make the danger go away.
A lower speed may reduce the consequences of an accident, but, then again, it might not. It's in the lap of the gods. You may have one serious accident in your life, if you're unlucky. You have one throw of the dice if and when it does happen. You might throw a one, or you might throw a six. You may be KSI, or you might not be. Do you feel lucky?[/quote]

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

What you're driving changes things too.

Very much so. I have just been re-reading (for the nth time) "The Racing Driver" by Denis Jenkinson. One sentence of his sums it up (and bear in mind he was writing in the late fifties) ..."The Humber Hawk that is invariably in the middle of the road and will never move over is probably going at two-tenths if you were driving; but the owner is at four-tenths as far as he is concerned, while the pre-war Morris 8 that overtakes you while you are trying to make up your mind about the Humber is more likely at eight-tenths."

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

There you go again, your statement, "many don't slow down enough", assumes that Many drivers are driving too fast and in that case you would expect MANY drivers to have accidents because they are driving too fast BUT are there that many accidents, on a daily basis, that involve people driving "too fast"? I think not.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

So what proportion of your average journey consists of 40mph bends then? Putting it another way, what proportion of accidents involve going around bends too fast, as opposed to colliding with other road-users
You prove nothing by taking an exception and pretending it's the rule

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I don't think that even Weepej can deny, that certain "performance cars" are safer in the same hands, on the same bit of road, in the same conditions, when driven quickly, than a basic model would be at fast speeds.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Round our way, I would guess that the majority of NSL accidents are people taking bends too fast and "falling off the road", as Weepej so simply puts it.

Only a small proportion of these type of accidents result in a fatality or even serious injury but they are far more common than the "head on" which is obviously, more likely to be fatal.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.