Safe Speed Forums

Aspirin: Wonder-drug.
But only for males.
It seems it has little effect for females.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Nor have I ever heard anybody refer to "Elevation Sickness"

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Nor do your personal anecdotes make you right. Crack on in ignorance if you like, I've done my bit to educate.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Brought across from thread here ...

I have added this in full here for easy reference :

Seems to me like yet another way to rake in more money, over punish for a possible contributory factor than actually do the hard work of finding the true causation factor and attempt even to mend that. I wonder what if any research they did to prove this either way other than a survey to see how many they might be able to fine. Or did they actually find out how many accidents were as a direct consequence of a smoking a cigarette ?
Drivers will continue to feel persecuted and watched closely for any small error yet the big errors are ignored as there is no one, or very few, traffic police out there to tug and question.
It is a real shambles.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Under the new Highway Code, which comes into force today, having a cigarette while driving is a breach of the rules of the road and classed as a "distraction".

If speed cameras and watching your speed all the time isn't a distraction I don't know what is.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I stopped smoking in Feb 2009 by switching to "vaping" (using an electronic cigarette/nicotine inhaler) - legally using such devices is not smoking (no combustion of tobacco or anything else) - I wonder if they are covered by this pronouncement? (Having said that, the Gov is trying to regulate electronic cigs out of existence by giving control of them to the pharma companies)

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Not wishing to carry on this side topic ... but ...

Altitude I have used on my bicycle when mountain biking - agreed more for fun than crucial info, and have on occasion used it with the Garmin GPS in the car on rare occasions - again fun that seriously required info. There is of course Altitude sickness in the serious mountains globally ...
Elevation can and is used ... I have heard it - I recently heard it used in the 'Highland Rescue' as it happens ...
I think when I was mountain climbing many used elevation there too ...
I guess it depends on profession and required use of data.
If you want to carry this on I'll move the posts to Gen chat ...

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I do consider a balanced approach & consideration to conditions is essential here and this is not balanced, nor considered when you make a sweeping rule.
COnsidering how many people drive and smoke - are there significant accidents resulting from this - where are there figures to back this up.
I fear that this is yet just another way to catch motorists by using the Spy Camera Police ... whether they are driving safely or not is becoming irrelevant.
That continues to increase the paranoia levels and makes drivers continue to see Camera Vans /Cars etc with more fear than keeping their eyes on the road, ALL of which is distracting and leads to frustration and inattention.
Whilst education is ignored - which might have seen many choose to not smoke in their cars, they just ignore that route altogether and treat the motorist as a target to continue to beat a stick with than offer any carrot.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I'm using this method as well, with a unit from Intellicig, finding it absolutely fantastic! I would be a shame if the pharma companies got their hands exclusively on the industry, can't even imagine how much the cost of consumables would go up!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Of course you can have altitude, along with your bicycle, as you are not fixed on the surface of the Earth, apologies if I was not clear enough in that aspect. A mountain cannot, nor can a city.

Interestingly (or not) a building/tree/mast etc. has both elevation (AMSL) at its base, and height (AGL), hence the two figures annotated on charts alongside significant items in this category.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

I may not have been very clear there soz. I mean if it is deemed that smoking is a distraction then surely the same can be said of speed cameras and constantly checking your speed.

Although I have no figures, based on my experience I would say bikers are far more spatially aware than the vast majority of drivers both out of necessity and because they do not fiddle with A/C, lighting a cig, fiddling with the radio, winding windows up or down, being distracted by passengers, faffing with a mobile phone, road cameras....

It's a wonder there aren't more KSI than there already are. This is why I personally think smoking should not be allowed, unless you are stationary. They have enough distractions as it is IMO and I don't say this as an anti-smoker; just from the common sense safety aspect.

I always remember being driven by a smoker who once dropped some ash onto his lap as he took a drag and tried flicking it off looking down at his crotch. We didn't crash or anything but it comes to something when a passenger is concentrating more on the road than the driver!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

But a loose rock on the summit of the mountain, or a car in the Denver, can have altitude as it is not fixed to the surface? I am begining to wonder what my altimeter is measuring

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Sorry -TONE - FROM first car in 1968 - to stopping in circa 2004 - i doubt if fags came into the safety equation - we lit a cigarette when safe to do so - it almost became part of the driving habit ,and to me - a smoker at the wheel with a cigarette is a lot safer than one gasping for a cigarette who cannot have one .I'M an ex smoker , but I do sympathise with them .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Ain’t gunna fall out with ya on that Dave, and I DO know where you're coming from.

I'm sure if I was a passenger with you at the wheel I wouldn't have had a problem back then. I guess the problem arises because, just like speed, some use it appropriately and some do not.

I can multi task in a car when driving but I choose not to because there’s something far more important than finding radio 4 or getting a fix from something/anything while I am driving.

If I was so inclined, I’ll switch the radio to my preferred station or have a fag when I’m stationary; not while I’m driving a Ton of metal at speed. The radio can wait, so should a smoke, so should many things which should be done before or after you take to the wheel IMHO.

I don't think it's right or safe to bring the lounge into the car.

You hate me now don't you?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Pressure. What did you think it was measuring?

Since objects fixed on the surface of the earth maintain a relatively constant elevation above mean sea level there is little point in assigning them a property whose value will change on the basis of atmospheric pressure, temperature and reference datum, wouldn't you say?

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

If and when I need educating about the English language I will turn to an acknowledged, rather than a self proclaimed, expert in the subject.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Geo-centric distance. I use a barometer to measure air pressure.

[

But the altitude doesn't change with pressure or temperature.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Then I suggest you familiarise yourself with the principals of altimetry, before you make even more of a fool of yourself! (I do however enjoy this kind of debate, its like getting a caller at poker every time I hold the royal flush! )

Pressure altimeters (by far and away the most common type) measure ambient pressure (did you guess the answer from the name?) and display the difference from a reference pressure (fixed or, more commonly, user adjustable) in units of length, assuming a standardised lapse rate. Radar 'altimeters' are not truly altimeters, but fancy electronic rulers aimed downwards from an aircraft, which measure the time taken for a pulse of electromagnetic energy to return from the surface, and are thus able to display the height above it. GPS units measure the time taken for signals to travel from various known points, and are able to display their position relative to these points. What exactly are you calling an altimeter today, and what is its reference datum?

So, lessons in English eh? Your conceited certainty in the accuracy of your misused vocabulary does not make it correct, sadly (for you).

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

altitude n: Height (of object, esp above sea level) - (concise Oxford Dictionary)



Exactly. They are aneroid barometers and do not measure distance. Knowing the pressure at the reference and assuming a certain lapse rate you can deduce your altitude to a surprising degree of accuracy



If they measure height above the ground they are, by definition, truly altimeters



Any instrument that can measure height above whatever reference datum I choose is an altimeter.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

So you agree then! Sheesh, that wasn't so hard now was it?

Now, here's the kicker, and you'll love this: The reason it is referred to as 'Altitude Sickness' and not 'Elevation Sickness' is because a person standing in, say, Denver, with an elevation of 5281', may themselves be at an effective altitude that is higher, due to vagaries of temperature and atmospheric pressure, and as such experience physiological effects commensurate with that altitude. Do you see? Your altimeter, even in Denver, could read any altitude, referenced to any of an infinite range of possible datums, even 5281', but none of them would change the elevation of the city, its height above mean sea level.

Incidentally, radalts do not always measure height AGL, merely from what they lock on to, which is often other objects, be they on or above the surface, even below the aircraft, or on at least one fateful occasion, below the surface of the water below!

Finally, and in closing I should hope, addressing your point that words may be used to different effect in different settings; the original issue arose from the account of a situation involving aviation and the medical effects thereof, in which circumstances my explanation is absolutely and undoubtedly the correct one. QED, I rest my case.

Oh, and the Ordnance Survey do use the term elevation, a couple of examples of such use (the product of a 3 second web search) can be found http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/geofacts/geo0019.html and http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/geofacts/geo1191.html

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.