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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 21:04 
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Just seen one of the pro Global Warming propaganda ads described in this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6867046.ece

Enlisting children in a political cause - I'm sure Goebbels would have approved :x

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 21:52 
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Do we really create 40% of the earth's CO2???

ASA anybody!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 22:40 
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This desperate propaganda has been going on for a while in movies:

I found this one to be particularly repugnant - The Day The Earth Stood Still (2008):

"You say we're on the brink of destruction, and you're right. But it's only on the brink that people find the will to change"

Cue full face shot of Cleese begging for the chance to change:

Attachment:
change.JPG [16.47 KiB]
Downloaded 1006 times


Of course they didn't describe what the 'problem' was, but it is strong enough to invoke feelings of guilt.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 01:15 
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He really is an excellent comedy actor. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 01:20 
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Watching bbc look north yesterday evening i was quite suprized to hear our local weatherman paul hudson telling us all that its now global cooling for the next 20 years, And yet this is the very same pratt who's been telling all yorkshire for the last 4 years we were going to have the warmest summers on record.
Interesting article here from the same guy,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8299079.stm
What happened to global warming?

By Paul Hudson
Climate correspondent, BBC News



Average temperatures have not increased for over a decade
This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.

But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.

And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.

So what on Earth is going on?

Climate change sceptics, who passionately and consistently argue that man's influence on our climate is overstated, say they saw it coming.

They argue that there are natural cycles, over which we have no control, that dictate how warm the planet is. But what is the evidence for this?

During the last few decades of the 20th century, our planet did warm quickly.


Recent research has ruled out solar influences on temperature increases
Sceptics argue that the warming we observed was down to the energy from the Sun increasing. After all 98% of the Earth's warmth comes from the Sun.

But research conducted two years ago, and published by the Royal Society, seemed to rule out solar influences.

The scientists' main approach was simple: to look at solar output and cosmic ray intensity over the last 30-40 years, and compare those trends with the graph for global average surface temperature.

And the results were clear. "Warming in the last 20 to 40 years can't have been caused by solar activity," said Dr Piers Forster from Leeds University, a leading contributor to this year's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

But one solar scientist Piers Corbyn from Weatheraction, a company specialising in long range weather forecasting, disagrees.

He claims that solar charged particles impact us far more than is currently accepted, so much so he says that they are almost entirely responsible for what happens to global temperatures.

He is so excited by what he has discovered that he plans to tell the international scientific community at a conference in London at the end of the month.

If proved correct, this could revolutionise the whole subject.

Ocean cycles

What is really interesting at the moment is what is happening to our oceans. They are the Earth's great heat stores.


In the last few years [the Pacific Ocean] has been losing its warmth and has recently started to cool down

According to research conducted by Professor Don Easterbrook from Western Washington University last November, the oceans and global temperatures are correlated.

The oceans, he says, have a cycle in which they warm and cool cyclically. The most important one is the Pacific decadal oscillation (PDO).

For much of the 1980s and 1990s, it was in a positive cycle, that means warmer than average. And observations have revealed that global temperatures were warm too.

But in the last few years it has been losing its warmth and has recently started to cool down.

These cycles in the past have lasted for nearly 30 years.

So could global temperatures follow? The global cooling from 1945 to 1977 coincided with one of these cold Pacific cycles.

Professor Easterbrook says: "The PDO cool mode has replaced the warm mode in the Pacific Ocean, virtually assuring us of about 30 years of global cooling."

So what does it all mean? Climate change sceptics argue that this is evidence that they have been right all along.

They say there are so many other natural causes for warming and cooling, that even if man is warming the planet, it is a small part compared with nature.

But those scientists who are equally passionate about man's influence on global warming argue that their science is solid.

The UK Met Office's Hadley Centre, responsible for future climate predictions, says it incorporates solar variation and ocean cycles into its climate models, and that they are nothing new.

In fact, the centre says they are just two of the whole host of known factors things that influence global temperatures - all of which are accounted for by its models.

In addition, say Met Office scientists, temperatures have never increased in a straight line, and there will always be periods of slower warming, or even temporary cooling.

What is crucial, they say, is the long-term trend in global temperatures. And that, according to the Met office data, is clearly up.

To confuse the issue even further, last month Mojib Latif, a member of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) says that we may indeed be in a period of cooling worldwide temperatures that could last another 10-20 years.


The UK Met Office says that warming is set to resume

Professor Latif is based at the Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences at Kiel University in Germany and is one of the world's top climate modellers.

But he makes it clear that he has not become a sceptic; he believes that this cooling will be temporary, before the overwhelming force of man-made global warming reasserts itself.

So what can we expect in the next few years?

Both sides have very different forecasts. The Met Office says that warming is set to resume quickly and strongly.

It predicts that from 2010 to 2015 at least half the years will be hotter than the current hottest year on record (1998).

Sceptics disagree. They insist it is unlikely that temperatures will reach the dizzy heights of 1998 until 2030 at the earliest. It is possible, they say, that because of ocean and solar cycles a period of global cooling is more likely.

One thing is for sure. It seems the debate about what is causing global warming is far from over. Indeed some would say its hotting up.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 02:01 
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Yes, they (the elite) want the people to feel guilty about the state of the planet that they have created, and they want us to pay for it, when they (our so called masters) have had the knowledge and technology for hundreds of years to make life easier for both us and our planet to live together. It’s all about greed and the thirst for money. They couldn’t care less about trashing the planet or future generations. But nature will retaliate, nature always wins, if you can’t live with nature, then there is nothing down for you. Humans are their own worst enemy, and they allow the elite to get away with it.

Just thought I would mention this. If you look closely on a Twenty Pound Note you will see St Cecilia on the back.

From the Wiki page Cecilia

Wiki wrote:
Cecilia (pronounced /s??si?li?/ ses-SEE-lee-?; Italian pronunciation: [t?e?t?ilja]) is a female given name of Latin origin meaning the way for the blind. [1] It is derived from a Roman family name, which was itself derived from the Latin word caecus, meaning blind.


The elite are taking the p$$ss out of you, and you don't even realise it. When you think about it, you have to hold a note up to the light to see the queens head. They think they are Gods! :angel: :lol: Until the blind open their eyes and realise what is going on, then there is no hope for humanity. :( Humanity is going backwards, not forwards.

One of the laws of the Covenant (his commandments) made by God our creature, was for us to respect our parents, our father, the heavens, our universe, our mother earth, and it's neighbors, that he provided. And what has happened? We can't even keep a simple commandment, and there is only ten of those, how simple do we need it?. Our Fathers commandments are universal, they go with you everywhere, and now they're also trying to bomb the Moon. As with any parents, they will only take so much from their children, before they have to punish them.

It mentions bowels in the Bible. The Earths (our mother) bowels are rumbling, once those bowels let go, there will be no hiding place for anyone, not even those who think they are safe. Our mothers skin is not that thick, so the cracks will not take much to open.

God will only help those who show respect, and are prepared to, not only look after themselves, but also each other. :)

Take care
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 08:10 
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The whole point is that we don't know so the precautionary principle must be applied. If the AGW pessimists are right then reducing our output of CO2 is vital to avoid a catastrophe. If they are wrong reducing CO2 won't make things any worse. Though futile in climate change terms, the effort to reduce CO2 has many other beneficial effects.

The behaviour of the Arctic ice cap and the opening of the north west passage suggests that it is getting warmer up there.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 09:42 
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Image

Quote:
Joan Ruddock, the Energy and Climate Change Minister, said: “The survey results show that people don’t realise that climate change is already under way and could have severe consequences. With over 40 per cent of the UK’s C02 emissions a result of personal choices, there is huge potential for individual behaviour change to lower emissions.”


Quote:
But Philip Stott, Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the University of London and a critic of the Government’s plan to cut CO2, said the advert was an attempt to manipulate people with alarmist language and apocalyptic imagery. “It is straight out of Orwell’s 1984: an attempt to control with images of a perpetual war against something, in this case climate change.”


More people die in the uk from low temperatures than from high temperatures.
The average temperatures seem to not be rising as high or as fast as the climate alarmists say....according to RELIABLE sources...and northern hemisphere temperatures seem to follow the cyclic changes that have been recorded for centuries....with little sign of any alarming heights being reached....and in the past the temperatures have been much higher as have been the co2 levels.
hat higher co2 levels have been associated with higher temperatures is not denied...but it has been pointed-out that the higher co2 levels FOLLOW the higher temperatures and do not LEAD them....

Image

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


Last edited by jomukuk on Sat Oct 10, 2009 09:54, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 09:46 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
The whole point is that we don't know so the precautionary principle must be applied. If the AGW pessimists are right then reducing our output of CO2 is vital to avoid a catastrophe. If they are wrong reducing CO2 won't make things any worse. Though futile in climate change terms, the effort to reduce CO2 has many other beneficial effects.

The behaviour of the Arctic ice cap and the opening of the north west passage suggests that it is getting warmer up there.



Ah, yes.. The "Precuationary principle"!

The idea that we have a "Problem" and that we must therefore "Do Something" (But we dont really know what but something dramatic looks impressive)

During the Black Death (You know, the one spread by Rat bourne fleas) everybody "Knew" that the disease was spread by witches, as a consequence Cats (Which everybody "Knew" to be witches familiars) were rounded up in vast numbers and burned alive (or roasted alive in baskets held over fires) in order to attempt to halt the spread of the disease.

A medievil example of the "Precutionarry principle" as it were.

This was not a good thing!

(Havving said that, I agree that there are other advantages in restricting fossil fuel consumption as there are for develiping non-fossil energy sources.

Though, personally spending £200Bn on a Nuclear power grid and associated energy infrastructure is a far better use of money than spending it all on bloody useless windmills)

Oh, And PS If we had spent the money that we have spent over the last 20 YEARS (yes it is that long! :( ) on "GulfWars" on Fusion research instead we would likly have had the first wave of power stations up and running by now and would no longer have a fossil fuel problem problem!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 09:57 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
The whole point is that we don't know so the precautionary principle must be applied.

And there was me thinking "the science is settled" :roll:

dcbwhaley wrote:
If they are wrong reducing CO2 won't make things any worse.

Of course it will. Manufacturing will take a major hit, as will the impact on private transport - and what of the populous of the poorer countries who are struggling to survive as it is? No, we have to be sure we're doing the right thing.

While raw data for climate models are going missing, I would say a few people who are paid (with our money) to know better know better are doing exactly the wrong thing.

Going further: if anything, perhaps doing this will actually avert an otherwise inevitable ice age? :scratchchin: I don't fancy living under 1km of ice!

dcbwhaley wrote:
The behaviour of the Arctic ice cap and the opening of the north west passage suggests that it is getting warmer up there.

It's been open for quite a while already.
Using this as an proof of AGW is highly specious (not specifically aimed at you DCB, but too many people unthinkingly refer to this).
Wouldn't you expect sea levels to rise if we're exiting an earlier ice age? Did you know the sea levels were 140m lower 10,000 years ago?

If we've reached a 'tipping point' in terms of global warming from additional CO2 in the atmosphere, why did our planet suffer from prolonged ice ages when the atmospheric CO2 level was 9 times higher? (3600ppm, compared to today's ~400ppm)


I reckon governments want us to conserve oil simply to allow them to keep the military machine going for longer (the tax windfalls would be a welcome bonus), but they're not daft enough to allow us to have that choice. Heck, I'm happy to reduce just to prevent funding of inhumane regimes - the UK can manage that, but I believe the USA must import most of theirs!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 15:11 
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I don't get all the stick with cars from this whole carbon thing tbh. It seems all of these crazy "green" people seem to forget the undeniable MASSIVE benefits that they have provided over the years. I'm not replying to anyone, just a general observation about the whole malarky.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 15:19 
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No, you are so wrong.
the crazy green people do not dislike cars, they dislike people.
The green party would like to see the population of the UK reduced to a "sustainable" 16 million people.
Quite how they would manage this, and exactly who would support a population of 16 million old[er] people, they seem unwilling to say.
One therefore supposes that they mean to reduce the population by selective removal of certain persons. Probably by age.
And I don't mean youngest first. After all, birth control is effectively ending the country anyway.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 21:11 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
He really is an excellent comedy actor. :)


IMHO ,if it wasn't so serious the climate change thing is much the same . A bunch of clowns telling us that a minor act by humans can affect the overall nature picture ,which has been evolving and changing for centuries ,without the need for human intervention .

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 23:19 
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I recommend reading Flood by Steven Baxter, if you like SF that is.

It occurs to me that we could well spend the next few decades working hard to lower our standard of living in the hopes of preserving the planet then get hit by a huge asteroid anyway. If I am still around then at least I will get to enjoy the irony.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 00:12 
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Actually I'd be tackling it in a different way.


IG's spoofed up for fun version of the bedtime story

Quote:
The storybook shows a British town clogged with rats fighting over the unemptied kitchen slop buckets and other stuff due to be recycled which was never collected.. Pedestrians and cyclists jostling and huddling together . each hoping they will not fall into this mess ... and die from the germs or be comatised by the pong.

Carbon dioxide is depicted as rising in clouds of methane from the combination of farts and putrid garbage which is left rotting due to council cut backs

Added to this would be the wii and other stuff which kids demand as "necessary" and never used once bought. :roll:

. My version would include farts caused by eating too many lentil burgers as well :hehe: The farty methane gas then gathers into a jagged-toothed green monster menacing the town.

The daughter asks her father if the story has a happy ending and a voiceover cuts in, saying: "It's up to us to apply common sense, buy what we need ... use up all the food and stuff we buy without wasting it/getting full value from the purchase ...and not to listen to green politicians who play nightmare politics! And to remember that not wasting cash means we can buy that classic top of the range stealth Merc :D :twisted:





Seriously - one country's effort in ensuring all lights are switched off .. etc is but a spit into the ocean. All countries have to do so.. and none will agree to do so.

Controversial discussion mode.. :bunker:
But each custodean of our planet from prehistoric man to modern man has used the resources avalaible to him .. and each generation has found the means to overcome the hostilites of our planet and use to advantage. Our problem? We have mollycoddled our young too much ... dumbed down their education .. and stunted the survival against all odds.. gene . perhaps :scratchchin: As we head into the future .. we reap what we sowed perhaps and maybe have become way to soft to survive as a result?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 00:18 
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toltec wrote:
I recommend reading Flood by Steven Baxter, if you like SF that is.

It occurs to me that we could well spend the next few decades working hard to lower our standard of living in the hopes of preserving the planet then get hit by a huge asteroid anyway. If I am still around then at least I will get to enjoy the irony.



ABout 9 years ago .. I heard this would hit in 2017. :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 20:45 
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In Gear wrote "We have mollycoddled our young too much ... dumbed down their education .. and stunted the survival against all odds.. gene . perhaps" From all the good sense you write you must be over 45 :clap:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 23:30 
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The telegraph have noticed how the bbc had a subtle change of opinion,
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damia ... s-website/
BBC bosses will hate this. The quiet U-turn on global warming by its climate change correspondent, Paul Hudson, is currently the most popular story on its website, way ahead of the tragic death of Stephen Gately. The whole world now knows something that the Beeb would rather not acknowledge: that its specialist reporter on global warming admits that global warming is not happening – and may not start again for 30 years

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 23:55 
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nigel_bytes wrote:
The telegraph have noticed how the bbc had a subtle change of opinion,
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damia ... s-website/
BBC bosses will hate this. The quiet U-turn on global warming by its climate change correspondent, Paul Hudson, is currently the most popular story on its website, way ahead of the tragic death of Stephen Gately. The whole world now knows something that the Beeb would rather not acknowledge: that its specialist reporter on global warming admits that global warming is not happening – and may not start again for 30 years

Straight from the horse's mouth!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 07:54 
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Daily Telegraph

Quote:
Road pricing 'should be used to help meet carbon targets'

Road pricing, rigid 70mph speed limits on motorways and mandatory, eco-driving lessons should be introduced to help country meet legally-binding carbon emissions targets, a key Government advisory committee has said.

By Louise Gray, Environment Correspondent
Published: 10:20PM BST 11 Oct 2009

Ministers first floated the idea of a national road pricing scheme as a "stealth tax" to pay for upgrading roads and improving public transport.

However it caused a massive backlash among motorists who were concerned the payments, that could be made at toll booths or through satellite technology, would make freedom of travel prohibitively expensive.

Now the idea has reared its head again as part of a number of measures to help the UK meet ambitious climate change targets.

The Committee on Climate Change said the Government is unlikely to be able to meet the target to cut greenhouse gas emissions by at least 34 per cent by 2020 unless there is a radical step change in power generation, transport and homes.

In its first annual report the expert committee led, that was set up to make sure the Government stays on track to meet its own targets, recommended a series of radical measures.

:: IN TRANSPORT: Subsidies for the car industry should encourage 1.7 million electric cars onto the roads by 2020. Petrol cars can be made more efficient by keeping to 70mph on motorways and teaching people to drive in higher gears and rev the engine less in "eco-driving" lessons. People should also be encouraged onto public transport or "smarter choices" like car sharing by making driving more expensive, for example by introducing road pricing.

:: IN HOMES: Homeowners will have to do their bit by better insulating homes and turning off appliances. The current plans to let energy companies lead the way should be replaced by a Government led "street by street" refurbishment programme that would see 10 million lofts and 7.5 million cavity walls insulated by 2015 and all 12 million inefficient boilers in people's homes replaced by 2022.

:: IN POWER: Thousands of wind farms will need to be built as well as up to three nuclear power stations in order to provide "clean energy". Any new coal-fired power stations will have to be fitted with the new technology "carbon capture and storage" that takes carbon dioxide and stores it under ground. The committee pointed out that the recession had pushed down carbon prices, making it cheaper for industry to pollute, and more important than ever for Government to encourage cleaner technologies.

In the past five years, greenhouse gas emissions have been falling at a rate of less than one per cent a year, with the most significant pollutant, carbon dioxide, only dropping by 0.5 per cent annually.

David Kennedy, Chief Executive of the Committee on Climate Change, said reductions in carbon emissions will have to triple to three per cent per annum by next year.

He said Government policy needs to start introducing policy to change lifestyles, including road pricing, in order to encourage lifestyle change.

"We are not calling for Government to rush ahead and introduce road pricing but its is something that should not go off the agenda in years to come," he said.

But Matthew Elliott, Chief Executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, said motorists should not be punished.

"Motorists already cover the cost of their carbon dioxide emissions so the idea that they should be punished - especially in a time of recession - is just plain wrong," he said.

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