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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 16:01 
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Times Online

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Straying’s over, Rover, the state is watching you

Marie Woolf

Even dogs cannot escape the surveillance state. Under plans to be put forward by both Labour and the Conservatives at the next election, all dogs will have to be fitted with a microchip with their owner’s name, address and phone number.

In addition, a national database will hold details of all dogs in the country, including their breed, age and health. Owners who fail to insert a microchip containing a unique barcode will face a fine and possibly the right to keep their dog.

Both Labour and the Tories believe the policy will curb the number of stray dogs and will deter owners from buying dogs they do not look after properly. The microchip, which is inserted under the skin, usually at the scruff of the neck, is also intended to help stop the trade in stolen dogs.

The effectiveness of microchips is well known and was illustrated by the experience of Debbie Matthews, daughter of Bruce Forsyth, the television presenter.

She had her yorkshire terriers snatched from the back of her BMW while she went shopping. The thieves sold them on to other people but vets were still able to establish their real identity as they both had microchips beneath their skin.

Andrew Rosindell MP, the Conservative animal welfare spokesman, said he thought microchipping would stop Britain’s pounds overflowing with strays and help identify irresponsible owners.

The Conservative council in Wandsworth, south London, has already made it compulsory for council tenants with dogs to microchip their animals and log details on a database.

Rosindell, MP for Romford, Essex, said microchips also helped to cut crime. “If a dog that has been involved in fighting or bad behaviour has been microchipped, it will help the police find who the owner is,” he said.

Ian Cawsey MP, a vice-chairman of the Labour party who has been asked by Gordon Brown to draw up animal welfare policies, also said microchipping was vital.

The policy will be at the heart of Labour’s animal welfare proposals to be unveiled at its conference this week. They include a ban on shock collars for badly behaved dogs. The collars, which have been condemned by animal welfare organisations as cruel, emit an electric shock to stop the dog misbehaving.

The proposals also include plans to ban wild animals from circuses and to outlaw the sale of reptiles that have not been bred in the UK.

Labour is planning a fresh assault on hunting and shooting with a ban on the intensive rearing of game birds, such as pheasants. It also wants to bring in fresh measures to protect wild animals, including phasing out the use of snares to catch foxes and rabbits.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 16:46 
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Owners who fail to insert a microchip containing a unique barcode will face a fine and possibly the right to keep their dog.

And how do they propose to trace them?

You would think that any Government would have enough on its plate without wasting time on this.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 18:25 
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Same old, same old.
Those people who are up to no good will not get the chip.
When will the realise government criminals tend not to worry about the law.
The tattooed F££k wits will be queuing round the block to register their illegally bred pitbulls.
Anyway you have been able to microchip your dog for years.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 00:40 
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8,000,000 dogs @ £5.00/dog = £40,000,000.
"chipping" your dog is exactly the same system as is used for motor vehicles and other property.
Always follow the money trail. Look at the "boards" of the companies involved in the sale/insertion/reading/data-handling to get the whole picture.
Then look at system "creep".

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 01:09 
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jomukuk wrote:
Then look at system "creep".


Exactly! Your dear little children will be next, all in the name of safety of course. :)

Take care all
Dixie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 03:50 
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Isn't this cruelty?

Also, if this were to happen, if you steal a dog you'll have to cut it open and install a new RFID tag? Which will presumably be "indisputable" because it is technology? That'll help.

Yep, money and restriction of our freedom.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 07:42 
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Ziltro wrote:
Isn't this cruelty?

Also, if this were to happen, if you steal a dog you'll have to cut it open and install a new RFID tag? Which will presumably be "indisputable" because it is technology? That'll help.

Yep, money and restriction of our freedom.


Owning a dog restricts other peoples freedom.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 09:26 
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You first have to find the transponder. It is about 1mm square, and even when encapsulated for body insertion it is only about 3mm diameter and 6mm long. It can be inserted into any area that has subcutaneous fat.
In motorcycles it is inserted into frame members, into hollow wheel spokes or into drilled "dimples" (then covered and disguised)
TAGS

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:19 
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Times Online wrote:
insert a microchip containing a unique barcode


Is it me or will Image on an encapsulated chip inserted into the flesh of an animal not be somewhat hard to read with an optical scanner?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 15:18 
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Don't know how true this article is, but it does make you think.

Microchip Implants Cause Cancer

Take care
Dixie
:)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 15:48 
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Dixie wrote:
Don't know how true this article is, but it does make you think.

Microchip Implants Cause Cancer

Take care
Dixie
:)


There are a number of materials used for medical implants, heart valves etc., that presumably do not cause cancer. You would imagine that the material used to encapsulate these chips would have been chosen from a recognised list or tested.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 15:57 
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toltec wrote:
You would imagine that the material used to encapsulate these chips would have been chosen from a recognised list or tested.


It’s funny you say that, as I seem to have a reaction to capsules in general. I’m OK with most tablets, but whenever I take anything in a capsule It doesn’t seem agree with me. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 22:58 
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Hope the ex-wife gets one fitted :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 22:51 
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nigel_bytes wrote:
Hope the ex-wife gets one fitted :lol:


Nigel ----beware- this lot are determined to get a shower of women into power next time - and then - us blokes will be microchipped /tagged and maybe even fitted with the spirit bottle anti theft devices ( little wire ring that fits round neck of bottle-sort of male chastity belt).

Now I've got a rescue dog with a chip and got to jump through hoops to get address data changed -need proofs of all sorts .Nice to think that the women will have a job to find us ,but then -----how do we get the chastity device off :shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 23:52 
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No angle grinders to hand then ! :D

The chips can apparently be over chipped as in place in a new one above the old one, as the readers only read the nearest ! great hey - makes chipping fairly pointless ! (to anyone stealing a dog that is !)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 00:25 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
No angle grinders to hand then ! :D

The chips can apparently be over chipped as in place in a new one above the old one, as the readers only read the nearest ! great hey - makes chipping fairly pointless ! (to anyone stealing a dog that is !)



But then-as per new Autoglass ad - "we can repair a broken chip " - "we inject resin " - so what does that resin do ???? :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 01:09 
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ImageObviously, not so easy to damage. Easy to impede the reading of the id tag, you just cover it with aluminium foil. The picture is of the ones "injected" into animals. There are now complete units which are 2mm diameter and 4mm long. The one pictured above is not only encapsulated but the capsule is filled with a silicon compound as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 00:59 
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If vets worry about grass seeds entering a dogs eye and the working all the way to a dogs back and then causing a lot of problems what happens to these ?!!

Not sure about injecting resin though ! :shock: That may cause lumps or horns ! ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 00:04 
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Did someone mention it costing £5 ? Just got my dog's ownership changed on kennel club system .Cost -£15 .And know that the kennel he was rescued to does chipping and their price is £15 .So it's not as cheap as mentioned .

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:00 
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Happily in a commercial world there are varying prices. Sometimes I have seen cheaper offers at shows, but I happen to have a friend that has the kit and done the course. It was cheaper for her to do this than to have all her dogs chipped by someone else !
So if the Rescue centre is costing £15 then IMO they are ensuring they are making a healthy or enforced donation !
If I were them I might look at saying £5 for chipping & please give us a donation ?

What is the 'find' rate of lost dogs/animals to those chipped against those not chipped ?
There are all sorts of tags, freeze marks which traditionally have been used to help locate lost or stolen creatures.
With no system being fool proof, is it worth it ?

I lost one of my dogs once overnight and it was a terribly worrying time, but happily I found her the next morning when I went off looking for her, but no chip or anything in this instance would have helped.

Systems work to often deter criminals, and to give more honest people a chance to help return things to those that have mislaid or who have had lost or stoeln items that have been found.
I wonder what the stats are for those items which were stolen and return to their rightful owners ?

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