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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 21:44 
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Sleeping policemen
9:10am Monday 16th February 2009

By Alan Calvert »

WHATEVER next? A pilot scheme in London is to explore the use of sleeping policemen in the production of electricity.

No, not dozy coppers — the other kind, sometimes referred to as speed bumps.

I read about this the other day expecting to see some reference to Wallace and Gromit, but it seems this is an entirely serious idea from a respected engineer called Peter Hughes.

He has developed ramps costing between £20,000 and £55,000 that are designed to capture the kinetic energy of vehicles passing over them.

Traffic causes panels to go up and down, setting a cog in motion that turns a motor to produce mechanical energy.

It is claimed that 10 ramps could generate the same power as one wind turbine.

Ealing Council has secured £150,000 in funding to see if the idea works and Mr Hughes has apparently talked to more than 200 other councils as well.

It all sounds frightfully clever, but I can see some snags.

I suspect that even if enough cars hit the bumps — I cannot be the only motorist in Bolton who goes out of his way to avoid them — maintenance to keep them working would be a problem over a long period of time.

And, as we all know, slumbering law-enforcers of this kind are usually installed on estates away from the main roads as a means of slowing cars down to preserve lives.

For these bumps to be any use at all they would surely have to be a feature of busier thoroughfares.

Still, it is good to see that innovative folk think of things like this.

We are told the world needs more “green” energy and this seems to be an extension of the thinking behind the opening of a nightclub in Rotterdam that is run partly on energy generated by people dancing.

Elsewhere, there is interest in using pedestrians’ footsteps to power lighting at shopping centres.

Mind you, if the retail trade continues to be hit by the recession there might be a better case for a few candles dotted here and there.



http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/search/4 ... policemen/


Reader in tonight's press comments on smoothness as reducing CO2. He suggests rumble strips which kick in to discomfort at above the lolly.

I agree. It's quite possible to make these fit to required limit :wink: Matter of Physics. Tonight's reader showed he understands Physics here :wink:


I may have this in wrong fora, Peter .. Claire .. et al.. Move to CHAT or SOAP if you think best. :wink:

I put it here as it was in the Bolton press.
All this is down to the wonder of the creative mind and I suppose we have to believe that this idea has legs, so to speak.

Will we see the day when electricity in the posh flats surrounding the Lord’s cricket ground is provided by gizmos of this nature under the run-up of large fast bowlers such as Andrew Flintoff?

Is it likely that Premiership footballers chasing a bag of wind around a field will create enough energy to keep the floodlights shining?

No, I don’t think so either

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 22:37 
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Its not "Green" energy.

It is a very inefficent way of turning petrol into electricity!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 23:12 
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Damn! You beat me to it! Yes, that's EXACTLY the problem - the energy for this comes from...

...the petrol / diesel burned by cars. :roll: It's typical of the disjointed thinking so often exhibited by Councils! I wonder if the time will come when the same council produces one report on how much CO2 they save with this brilliant invention and the same department produces a report on how much extra CO2 from road vehicles are created by speed humps! The difference will be the efficiency of the mechanism under the speed hump!

Still, by the time we're all driving electric cars, I'm sure some Council will have the brilliant idea of installing enough speed humps to charge all the electric cars in its area!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 01:35 
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Dusty wrote:
Its not "Green" energy.

It is a very inefficent way of turning petrol into electricity!

Yeah. Even if the arguments of the energy wasted in the brake disks, or the inefficiency of cars going so slowly because of the humps, are dismissed (well drivers would have to slow down for them anyway), they would be better off simply mounting a dedicated generator there - it would be better suited to the job (a 2000cc engine isn't best suited to generate a few kw of leccy) and there would be less to go mechanically wrong.

I notice they're calling this 'free' and 'green' energy: It is not free because the driver has to fork out more fuel to drive the generator (these humps can also be flat); and using car engines to generate green energy - when will they make up their minds?
No doubt the benefits of these will be over exaggerated (just like speed cameras) so these things needlessly appear where they're not needed so needlessly forcing drivers to frequently brake and waste more fuel - there's nothing 'free and green' about that :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 02:06 
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There are some calculations here. The numbers seem to stack.

However, assuming 1 car (assuming 2000kg) per second (generous) is generating the claimed 'up to 36kw', assuming ideal deformation, a car doing 30mph would be slowed to 26.8mph. You’re going to notice that speed change, especially over the length of the pad!
(assuming the numbers weren’t cooked like they were for that silly Gravia lamp).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:40 
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Steve wrote:
There are some calculations here. The numbers seem to stack.

However, assuming 1 car (assuming 2000kg) per second (generous) is generating the claimed 'up to 36kw', assuming ideal deformation, a car doing 30mph would be slowed to 26.8mph. You’re going to notice that speed change, especially over the length of the pad!
(assuming the numbers weren’t cooked like they were for that silly Gravia lamp).


Now, If, on the other hand..

You had some form of regenerative EM shock absorber that fed power back into a hybrids storage battery going over standard speed humps...

Though it is doubtfull whether something like this would actually save more than it costs (Like most "green" stuff :roll: )

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 14:20 
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Why does this make me think of putting a turbine on top of a car to harness the 'free' energy of the wind passing the car? :loco:

Edit: Not your idea Dusty, the speed bump.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 16:06 
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toltec wrote:
Why does this make me think of putting a turbine on top of a car to harness the 'free' energy of the wind passing the car? :loco:



You mean like this...

http://www.heavydutytrucking.com/2008/08/094b0808.asp

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:41 
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Dusty wrote:
toltec wrote:
Why does this make me think of putting a turbine on top of a car to harness the 'free' energy of the wind passing the car? :loco:



You mean like this...

http://www.heavydutytrucking.com/2008/08/094b0808.asp


Oh dear. I wonder if they have a sideline in perpetual motion machines.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 19:45 
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Steve wrote:
There are some calculations here. The numbers seem to stack.

However, assuming 1 car (assuming 2000kg) per second (generous) is generating the claimed 'up to 36kw', assuming ideal deformation, a car doing 30mph would be slowed to 26.8mph. You’re going to notice that speed change, especially over the length of the pad!
(assuming the numbers weren’t cooked like they were for that silly Gravia lamp).


Can't see any meaningful calculations there. There's a "Claimed" amount of electricity to be had (and nothing to back it up), then there's no attempt made to show that this energy is "waste" energy or wouldn't in some way come from the car's fuel tank. I guess it's the same principle as making all the cars drive along with flat tyres so that the "free" heat generated keeps the houses on either side of the street warm!

and as for this bit in the article:

"...Hughes has on occasion been advising the United Nations on renewable energy issues."

I despair... I really do! :banghead:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 20:48 
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Quote:
"...Hughes has on occasion been advising the United Nations on renewable energy issues."

I despair... I really do!


:yesyes: :yesyes: :yesyes: :yesyes: :yesyes:

:loco: :loco: :loco: :loco: :loco:

All together now...

"The LOOOoooonatics have taaaaaken over the Asyyylem..."

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 01:40 
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I have to wonder.. if cycling is the "future".... how much lycra needs to ride over these :scratchchin:


(I think they should really harness the hot air from lentil burgers to power up the planet :lol:. We would never run out of power on that basis.


:idea:


:bunker: :bunker:


Oops. :P

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 02:03 
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Good luck to any cyclists who happen to be on one of these pads when a vehicle rolls over them... :yikes: :reaper: :banghead:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 09:46 
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Ah, well, with cyclists, that's a different game entirely! That's like the dance floor in the original article. There, it's PEOPLE who generate the necessary energy. OK, it's harder to dance because instead of all your energy going into bouncing about, some of the energy is going into bouncing the floor itself up and down on its "generator" - much like I imagine dancing on a bouncy castle might be - although not as extreme. now if they want to make CYCLISTS work a bit harder to ride along the road generating electricity as they go - well, I'm all for that. It's greener (neglecting the extra CO2 they breathe out as a result :wink: )!

In fact, if councils REALLY want to do the "green" thing, they should put every electricity-generating impediment they can think of in the way of cyclists and pedestrians, whilst MINIMISING the impediment to those horrid nasty polluting abominations known as the "automobile"!!! Not only would they reduce pollution, but they'd be rid of them out of the town centre quicker!

(Although somehow, I've a feeling that might not happen)!

THINK of the possibilities! Department stores could have escalators that made it HARDER to go upstairs - a sort of staircase treadmill that generated electricity as the shoppers took two steps up and the escalator slid gently one step back down and generated enough electricity to power the illuminated "This is an environmentally responsible escalator" sign!

Cycle helmets could be required to have windmills on the top - both increasing the visibility of the cyclist AND generating electricity for their lights, mobile phones, and a special device that stored enough energy to give them a small electric shock if they stop pedalling hard enough to generate sufficient electricity!

Damn! I should have been Environment Minister!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:25 
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Quote:
(neglecting the extra CO2 they breathe out as a result )!


I have always (In my naugtier moments) wondererd just how green cycling actually is.

Cycles need fuel too!

Cyclists need food.

Food is a very inefficent way of turning fossil fuel into calories (energy ratios of 10:1 or even 100:1 are not uncommon)

The body is, inturn, an ineficient way of turning calories into useful work.

Might the cyclist be better off (from a "Green" point of view) using a scooter or even a small car?? :bunker: :twisted: :bunker:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 13:20 
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you'll have to factor in how much food related CO2 is wasted by fat people using cars rather than cycling it off .... :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 21:28 
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ed_m wrote:
you'll have to factor in how much food related CO2 is wasted by fat people using cars rather than cycling it off .... :lol:



OY.. I am quite svelte. :lol: for a "doughnut addict". (Wild :neko: and Krissi :tame cat: // Good grief.. they do doughnuts filled with really delightfully tasty and still healthy in essence. (I just cannot get enough of Lakeland stuffed doughnuts from the wild one and Wensleydale/ginger ones from the"not so tame" one :lol:


But then red cabbage is hailed as a "super food". OK .. so I cooked it so tenderly with apple and apple juice. Still got the "cabbage wind" :yikes: Whole family? :yikes: became "methane machines for a whole day! :shock:

"super food eh Jamie. Think of the planet on some "greens/reds" :lol:

OK .. so perhaps I made a bit too much of the damned stuff. (And made iit a bit too tasty as all polished it off before I could think of how to serve as "leftovers" :lol: )

But ed.. think .. just sometimes "cabbage" as so poignantly recorded by Anne Frank in her diary as televised recently (excellent BBC drama and the girl playing the lead . may she blossom as a character actresss .. by the way.) - results in CO2 :yikes: as do lentils. beans.. onions if you eat too much of them at one sitting :wink:

Not all "fat folk" fart. :wink: Eat too much muesli/lentils/onions/strong veg .. and you create more methane than the lardy lover. :wink:

But Ted has a point.. would a huddle of cyclists going over such humps at racing speeds generate sufficient to the national grid ? :scratchchin:

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