Safe Speed Forums

Steve's only conditionally right.

Firstly, the British people would have to be compliant. On that count, I have concerns, because although people behave shabbily to one another here, they won't stick their neck out if the "authorities" are involved. Basically, common Brits seem to have few basic principals, apart from greed, which doesn't really count!

Secondly, and more encouragingly, the authorities also have no backbone, as they are British themselves! They'll want to impose these "boxes" on new car drivers, to avoid upsetting too many voters at once. That's what happened with seat belts, anyway. You still don't need them in old cars.

And last, they haven't reckoned on "safe-speeders". Speed cameras are just information gathering tools, like computers. If you give up fighting "spies in the cab", you should certainly give up fighting speed cameras, as they would be superfluous anyway.

PS: reading back over that, it sounds pompous. Sorry. I'm British myself, born in a council house etc... although my extended periods in America, Europe and elsewhere (Africa, Asia, Wales!!! etc.) have given me another citizenship, and totally different views. I love Brits, of course I do. We're/they're a great bunch - the best. But we/they are an odd, and ungovernable people. Long may it stay like that.

We British could well be compliant enough, but it's not a necessity. The government could fool the populous as to the intention and/or effectiveness of their scheme, or simply just force the scheme, or committal of the scheme upon us (and let the next party deal with it).


It will still rapidly ripple through to the simpler cars especially as the determined criminals will switch to them - those who the spirit of such legislation is intended for (remember, we were talking about record keeping/insurance/taxation).
- Are you driving cars more than 36 years old? (I doubt it if you're not maintaining the oils and filters regularly)
- Are classic car drivers exempt from needing insurance?
- Why should any vehicle be exempt from 'record keeping'?


Yes one of these tools could be abused, but right now provides nothing but help to the user; the other tool is used in an abusive manner and its effectiveness is way misrepresented. Their inputs and outputs are just a teensy-weensy bit dissimilar.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Probably not that germane to the central argument, but I only think they didn't mandate retro-fitting of seat belts to older vehicles because of the technical near-impossibility of doing so effectively. That said, in the broader sense, I think the British have a soft spot for old things (including classic cars) and the regulators (many of whom I have met over the years and have found to be classic car enthusiasts, by the way!) have tended to bend over backwards to try and acoommodate them. More than I would have thought, at any rate!

Many reputable brake workshops would suggest using something like Pro-Cut to sort the disks out, if there really was a problem with them:-
http://www.garageandmot.co.uk/r-r-motor ... tting-edge

The problem with ****Fit is that if the stock control system shows up brake pads being sold without disks being sold, they'd match it to the job number, see who did the job and perhaps offer him a free trip to the local Job Centre.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Sorry to rake up an old thread again but I couldn't resist this!

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=19467

Looks like you might just be about to get what you wished for!!!!

I've never really been comfortable with disk/drum skimming.

It is only appropriate for dealing with the lightest of scoring (so light that it doesnt actually matter really)

skimming to remove any significant wear will leave the disks approaching or even at the minimum safe thickness. If the owner carries on using them until they look "worn" again they are likly to be significantly below it.

Worn disks + worn pads = pistons popping out of calipers and no brakes! (And yes, I have seen it happen)

Disks are like tyres, If they look worn they are worn! How many of you would be happy using a "Recut" tyre these days??

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Let's hope they are like tyres, i.e. plenty of competition to drive prices down, and no trade -secrets - they're just steel plates; no need for the makers to over-egg that. Anyway, I got a reply from Nelli's assistant about my complaint. It looks like the Europeans are kicking some ass over there (far better than our (UK's) besuited, fat-faced politicians):

(or even cast iron plates)

Actually, brake discs are to me one of the products that demonstrate to a tee the great conundrum with generic aftermarket parts.

On the one hand you have the original manufacturers part in his badged packaging. Guaranteed original spec and quality, peace of mind, huge bill, enormous margin to the dealer to fund their swanky showroom.

At the other extreme you have your surprisingly cheap nondescript manufacturer-you-never-heard-of replacement disc, which will be indifferently machined, and badly cast from poor grade iron. It might not fit properly onto the register, causing vibration and/or wheels coming loose when a disc later settles onto the register. More typically, it will expand unevenly in use, so as soon as it gets warm it warps, causing vibration through the steering. I've had all of these issues with cheapo brake discs, which has taught me that they aren't just steel plates. Perhaps the very problem is that they can't hold trade secrets, therefore anybody bothered to go and buy one to copy can turn out any sort of crap.

These days I tend to research carefully to find out who the original "OEM" part manufacturer is, then buy the parts via a different source. That way you get the original quality stuff but without the huge dealer markup.

That said, the dealers do seem to be getting wise to this, and on several recent occasions I've found the cheapest place to buy OEM BMW spares was the BMW dealer.

The times they are a changin!

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Hear Hear!

If 'Crombie's happy with his recycled Turkish manhole covers, then each to his own I say! As it is, he maintains he's no "speed merchant", so maybe his discs won't get much of a hard time - (except maybe when he's standing on the brakes trying to push into a queue before he runs out of hatched area)!

I feel much the same as you about pattern parts to be honest. Clearly, for example, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, etc don't make their own wiper blades, or brake pads. On the other hand, years of running old knackers and keeping meticulous records of when I replace things and how much they cost has been an eye opener.

For example, the OE CV joint gaiter lasted 93,000 miles. OE replacement part from dealer, about £12. Pattern part - less than half that. Only thing is, the pattern part lasted 20,000 miles before it split. Similarly my wife's car's original front wishbones were knocking their brains out at 82,000 miles. Pattern replacements could be had for as little as £30 on Ebay. Genuine OE were twice the price. The first time I did that job, I went for cheapies (not the Ebay ones, I went for something that at least came in a box with a name on. They were the devil's own job to fit. Initially everything was Ok and then she started complaining of heavy steering. When I jacked it up, I saw that the gaiter had popped off one of the balljoints and the grease had washed out. It turned out that at full rebound, the gaiter just wasn't elastic enough to absorb all the movement. Having re-greased it all and put the gaiter back on a bit better, but I notice the bushes were starting to knock again a bit when we sold the car 10,000 miles later. Needless to say, the next time I did the job, I bought genuine ones (but not from a UK dealer).

On the other hand, I'm not against such parts (as long as they're not actually dangerous). Clearly, if I knew the car had only just crawled through it's MOT and wouldn't be likely to pass its next one, I'd go for the cheapest stuff I could find because I wouldn't be needing it to last as long as OE. The trick is knowing which stuff is just going to wear out gradually, but prematurely, and which stuff is going to fail suddenly and kill you! Clearly, there isn't much stuff out there that fails catastrophically or we'd hear about it in the news a lot more, so it can't be a huge problem.

My general policy is not to buy anything that comes in a box with no name and that doesn''t have some sort of batch number on it. I'll happily buy a Valeo clutch or Ferodo brake pads. I'l even buy stuff from companies I've never heard of on occasions - if they're brave enough to put a name on the box then at least they feel they have a name worth using. Similarly a batch numbering system and or date code will denote at least the most basic of quality control systems and traceability.

...or at least better at fobbing people off! Are you sure it doesn't really say:

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