Safe Speed Forums

I caught up a cyclist on a middling-steep A road near Weymouth today. The car in front of my (doing 50ish) overtook him, but as I was in my big van and there was oncoming traffic getting uncomfortably close, I elected to wait at a normal kind of distance back until the way was completely clear then pass on the far side of the central white line, as is my preference, which choice delayed me by all of ten seconds. I hasten to add that I _could_ have squeezed by, but it would have been borderline unpleasant for either the oncoming traffic or the cyclist.

As I passed I was rewarded with a very dirty look from the cyclist, who looked like a fairly ordinary sort of chap in all other ways.

Can any of the more experienced cyclists here tell me what (if anything) I did wrong, or was it simply a case of being a white van driver and therefore "the enemy", and deserving of an evil glare?

It's possible your engine noise made him think you were being agressive.

You broke his stereotypical view of vehicle drivers as being ignorant, selfish and dangerous. So he could not dismiss you as somebody to look down on for destroying the planet by driving

Said theboxers, stereotyping...

you win some .. you lose some ..
if you're happy with how you handled it, don't worry.

admittedly it can be a bit concerning/surprising if vehicles hold back unexpectedly (whether you think they need to or not).. although more often than not that ends with them getting impatient and squeezing past anyway!

but yes someone holding back and then accelerating to get past safely & quickly can give a kind of aggressive engine note, i've noticed this myself and wondered if i should interpret it as venting fustration but i suspect when i do the same when passing a cyclist (in my car!) it sounds the same to them.

also i'm not sure what you'd count as an evil look or how you can be sure, again in that situation i'd be wanting to keep a close eye on the car waiting to overtake, although typically i'd be in an assertive road position if i think a pass isn't on... and bearing in mind just when someone is passing is not the best time to be looking across/over your shoulder as a) it unsights you from any bumps which might throw you off course and b) the action and lack of forward vision can cause you to veer that direction anyway! anyway, if the quickest shoulder glance i can get away with counts as an evil look... sorry

Were you far enough back that, if the cyclist had fallen over, you could have stopped without hitting him? From the tone of your post almost certainly but this is one of my biggest bugbears. I am sure that the drivers think that they are being very kind by not squeezing past but it is really nerve-raking to have a car just a couple of yards behind you. If you should fall off there is no wayyou could escape going under their wheels.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

There lies a real problem. And I do appreciate how uncomfortable it must feel!

In a van (especially a loaded one) staying THAT far back would mean that you will rarely, if ever, be able to take advantage of the limited gaps that might present themselves in the oncomming traffic on a busy road to pass said cyclist.

If we all drove 911 turbos (from the owners handbook. When overtaking, pull out BEFORE accelerating! ) this wouldnt be so much of a problem, but back in the real world.....

And as for trucks!!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

also as a side note..... as well as taking a less prominent position i often freewheel to assist/stimulate an overtake when i want it to happen !

If my vehicle was so underpowered that I could only overtake a pedal cycle by ignoring one of the more fundamental road safety concepts the I would be considering trading it in for something more useful - perhaps a hand-cart or a hoop.

But the situation I am complaining about is where there is just adequate room to pass but the driver chooses to tailgate closely. And I aagree with ed_m that there is an onus on the cyclist to cooperate with the overtaking vehicle. I have been known to - shock, horror - ride on the (unoccupied) pavement to allow traffic to overtake.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

We have an naturally aspirated diesel LDV pickup at work. You need to make an appointment to overtake, sometimes days in advance. It's fairly wide to with the drop side body, bikes can be a real pain to overtake, they are going too slow to just stay behind (other road users won't be happy), but you sometimes don't have the horses to get by. But it's easy in that compare to overtaking bikes on a tractor. Big, wide, heavy, slow...

My Transit is the 135 hp/280 lb ft version, so no problem there .

Although Johnny's example is rural, there is a general issue about overtaking cyclists on urban main roads. Very often they will be travelling at well below the general traffic speed, but because of oncoming traffic it is impossible to overtake them without compromising the safety margins that cycling advocates recommend.

There is a dilemma here - either cyclists should be prepared to put up with marginal overtakes, or they should follow Highway Code Rule 169 "Do not hold up a long queue of traffic" and periodically pull over to allow following motor vehicles to pass

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Quite agree. Most urban streets are wide enough to allow passing with an adequate clearance albeit less than the recommended 5 feet. If a cyclist can't cope with a car passing at a distance of two feet he shouldn't be riding in urban traffic. Badly parked vehicles and central islands are a problem though.

But, that apart, the driver should decide whether it is safe to pass. If it is then do so firmly. If not stay a safe distance behind. Owning a clapped out van is no excuse for endangering lives.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

in my experience this gets rather worse with faster cyclists..... one urban section on my commute is slightly downhill, where i can maintain 20-25mph, with frequent central islands.... i sympathise with the drivers & co-operate where possible but sods law dictates more often than not where there's not an island there's an oncoming car.

the how close to pass thing vaguely rings a bell with me.... my thoughts were to do with relative speed and how long i'm exposed to the risk...

low clearance = higher risk
long time to pass (low relative speed) = higher risk

so closer but quicker ..... or further but slower .. kind of balance out.

obviously there's an absolute minimum clearance, i dont know what it is, but i know when i feel its been violated !

but if they're going to pass by closely i'd rather they did it quickly.. if they're going to crawl past (which some seem to do due to being cautious) i'd rather thay did it further away.

"Johnny's Law" is to overtake bikes like slow cars, i.e. try and afford them the whole of their lane when passing. If I can't do that, I tend to wait. But I suppose the cyclist - if they're resigned to being passed quite closely - might wonder what I'm waiting for.

It's perverse, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

The cyclist may well have been sitting there feeling bad as he perceived he was holding you up.

It is disconcerting to have a care stay behind when there is room to pass. I tend to assume that they are incompetent and move out to he centre of the lane in case they suddenly decide to pass where it isn't safe

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

But this was a VAN .. not a car. Johnny has to take on coming vehicles into account in his decision making.

Thus - like the HGV driver in a letter from CW which I posted a week or two ago - some cyclists appreciate the gesture.


If you wish the person to pass.. then signal. make an eye contact if you can. POLITE signals as rudeness gets folk nowhere and can cause an accident.

Assist the overtake as bese you can too. That applies to any road user so how they are travelling.


By the way - not all vans are "clapped out". . I think Speed Cam Action showed all 5 drivers fail the theory/hazard test which had perhaps more to do with their age group and not being "au fait" with computer games which require fingers to click on a mouse than actual ability - given the van driver and the "yummy mummy" on the prog were the only two who actually passed the practical driving test with a chief DSA examiner (OAP /Sales Rep/recently passed young lad all failed )

Thus - van drivers do not not conform to a stereotype as first coined by some dreary bint on R2.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I wasn't criticising OP. I was reffering to the situation where a vehicle drives two feet behind me instead of passing with two feet clearance. Neither action is pleasent but the first is much more disconcerting



Make eye contact with some one in a car two feet behind you? :contortionist smiley



I never said they were but to quote Dusty - "In a van (especially a loaded one) staying THAT far back (i.e far enought back not to endanger the cyclist)would mean that you will rarely, if ever, be able to take advantage of the limited gaps that might present themselves in the oncoming traffic on a busy road to pass said cyclist" - If your vehicle is such that you have to endanger other road users to make normal progress then I consider it clapped-out, even if it is fresh from the show-room. But then British transport operators are notorious for using over-large under-powered vehicles

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown