Safe Speed Forums

I think that is a pretty good summary. You only have to read a few threads on this forum to see who is attracted to the forum and what attitudes they have when posting. The most surprising thing about the 'campaign' is the narrow-minded approach of many of its supporters. Read through the threads with an open mind and you see a plethora of closed minds who join ranks and gang up on those that are different. This thread is a great example, and there were plenty of good examples in the 'charity' thread that got locked.

The campaign would best be served by having an awful lot more critical people on board. Surrounding yourselves with like-minded people removes critical thinking from the equation. It isn't surprising that you gang up, you are all car drivers, you reinforce each others views and make yourselves even more right.

The campaign would also be very well served by not being so interminably and fundamentally negative.

Get some positive proposals, cost them out, test them with some road safety experts, then approach government with them. Finally publicise them. Now that would be a campaign.

I do read the forum but I'm unclear as to the type of person 'who is attracted' could you spell it out to me please?

You will be unsurprised to hear I think you are looking in a mirror, just change car driver to cyclists that do not drive. EDIT: Sorry that is a bit unfair, lets say you are looking at a well known cycling forum. As weepej above, you are expressing your point of view about the campaign rather than nit picking specific items. I have a habit of playing devil's advocate on here to try to test assumptions and ideas. If you want to make SS a site that can be accepted by open minded cyclists then please stick around.

I do cycle but mostly offroad now. Why? Because I decided riding on the road in town was too damn dangerous, not due to speeding cars but drivers who did not pay attention. I have been knocked off a couple of times and come close to being squashed more times than I can count, not a single one of these occasions had anything to do with speed, other than mine generally being higher than the vehicles. My wife refuses to ride a bike to work as there is a one mile stretch which is a continuous school run queue in the morning and she feels these slow moving vehicles with apparently inattentive drivers is too great a hazard. Speed cameras promote inattention and do not catch dozy, crap, cyclist killing turds in a tin box.

When I am in a tin, or in my case plastic, box I can look after myself and avoid killing anyone else pretty well (not perfect but I try), so speed cameras are just nuisance to me really. I really believe relying on cameras is producing a poorer driving culture and want ways of either getting the crap road users (yes cyclists as well) off the road or made to take instruction to change their habits.

Open minded enough for you?



My bold, know any millionaires? One of the reasons SS is small is lack of resources, and because it is small it is difficult to improve them, a bit chicken and egg. Gaining charitable status has been discussed on here, however this takes a lot of work from what I understand. Brake has it I know, but when has it done anything other than regurgitate the work of others or produce emotive laden justifications devoid of any logic.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I said cost them out, not finance them yourselves! If the proposals were good enough the government would finance them. If the campaign is strong enough, has good professional backing and has enough public support then there you are!

In reply to civil engineer - the answer is in my post.

I think you will find experts like to be paid. Actually a huge chunk has been done, the sum of £6 billion is mentioned in that link I posted. No point re-inventing the wheel, what would you like to see though?

I do not want to infer the wrong thing so please comment yourself. I would not be happy with a solution that was simply the cheapest way to secure some savings in injuries.

CATNIP - Cheapest Available Technology Not Involving Prosecution

BATNIEC - Best Available Technology Not Involving Excessive Cost

This is from more general H&S engineering rather than safety as a whole so the word Technology is a bit narrow, you get the idea though I hope.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Cyclist B, I'm not sure that you did, or if you did you were being somewhat obtuse.

Are you saying that this forum attracts those with 'closed minds'? surely that would include a broad range of views and make for some interesting banter.

Please be specific, Its useful to get to the point.

What type of person is attracted to this forum?

Do you know how much they stand to lose? Since when did turkeys start voting for Christmas?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Sorry for delay, I think this is why you are at odds with many who post on here, particularly me. I don't agree with any of the points you raise here, but you still insist that I because I post here that I must be an anti-social speedophile.

Sorry Big Tone; can't take you seriously with that signature.

Best comeback ever! Seriously! In one short sentence you have demonstrated that not only are you obnoxiously judgmental, but that nobody should expect anything less than derision from you when you have no rebuttal for a valid point.

Well done, thanks for broadcasting to all what most of us had already deduced.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

B Cyclist,

What sort of person is attracted to this forum?

I think you know the answer to that. It is all around you.


I see closed mind discussions on here in most places I look. If you call 'interesting banter' being told that you are a liar and don't have the driving experience you say you have, that people who do not oppose cameras are 'brainwashed', that if you aren't an experienced driver your point of view is not valid (how closed is that!), that you or people that think like you are corporate nazis, that if you come to a forum where the majority of posters views are different to yours you should expect to be bullied (that's a peach, that one - how do you expect to entertain new views if that is your approach?!), someone with a different view is 'peddling dogma', that a poster is a belligerent twit, that it is better to aim to have dead people rather than people in a PVS, that someone who doesn't oppose cameras is a 'scam proponent'.

Not pretty!

*You/Yours is not referring to you personally.

Sorry, but if you think that "yet another fat excuse to make more money from drivers!" somehow reflects a road safety campaign, then it is you that should be treated with derision.

So what type of people are attracted to the forum?

I'm afraid I'm sttruggling to understand.

B cyclist, I was having trouble with getting overtaken while turning right, mainly on my bike, but sometimes on things big and spikey. After a discussion on here it turned out that I was indicating too late. So I put that right and over night the problem disappeared. Isn't that better than being shovelled up of the road and the person that hit me getting prosecuted? Worth my membership if you ask me.

Ok B cyclist, maybe you will take this more seriously then...

The government have known, for about fifty years, the dangers of smoking and yet they have only in recent times made the pathetic step of putting "Smoking Kills" on the packet. Look at the overwhelming and irrefutable evidence for that case!

Their answer? Charge more for them.

Just how naive are you?

Sorry B cyclist, I can't take you seriously anymore.

Edit to add: If every penny of the money they got from speeding was poured back into road safety I wouldn't use it as a signature, for now. The award for cheapest shot goes to you IMHO.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

As far as I can tell, anti-safespeed campaigners like weepej, mpaton, B cyclist and Oliver999 etc.

Which is interesting since they maintain that Safespeed posters are anti-social morons?

Sorry B cyclist; can't take you seriously with that attitude.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Well you have a right to your opinion. We encourage people to debate driving issues. This direct sweeping condemning comment should either be backed up with fact or retracted forthwith. Your cooments are so far from the truth that they are totally wrong and unjustified.


Not at all we encourage good attitude, concentration, awareness, courtesy, anticipate, observation, spacial awareness, time to react along with many more aspects of good driving, that also incorporate Risk Management, Driver responsibility, to ensure that a safe speed is maintained at all times.
No I am not aware at all of the 'sort of' example that you imply ? Where have we ever implied this or anything like it ?
In fact as a pedistrian, cyclist, horse rider, biker and car driver, I have the luxury of understanding road use from many perspectives.


Well I am sorry that you seem to think that my forums imply this. I have not seen this anyway - care to point me in the direction. But of course many people do frequent these boards and many many opinions are expressed from all corners. I agree that some road users feel segregated from other road users and this is a great shame as we all have a responsibility to look out for each other and do what we can to help our fellow wo/man.


Humm well I don't see that at all. But you have a right to an opinion but since you imply that some threads do this I think that you had better specify which - please ?
Well we could debate 'what is an open minded attitude' but let's put that aside for the minute. In fact these forums are visited because of the very open-mindedness of its core. That is certainly the believe that I have.
I would not like to see ganging up as you put it on any level and it will be discouraged and potentially dealt with. These forums are for serious driving discussions, not vitriol please refrain immediately.


Ah well having those on here who believe another route to road safety is actively encouraged. What is your view exactly - lets take your road safety views into another topic so that we do not become off topic here.
In fact these forums are for discussing all areas of Road Safety a quick look about can tell you that - do take a look.
Understandably those that believe the 'same thing' invariably join together it is how almost all clubs and associations etc manage to survive - after all no point in joining the local fishing club if you want to learn about woodworking !


Humm well sadly there is little to be pleased about. When about 90% of the Government Road Safety message is about a numeric value and we are stating that you cannot measure safe driving in miles per hour then the stage is set rather ....
However I have been in the Press recently praising Swindon so it is not all negative
Then I have said a large percentage of driving discussion in the Press about driver responsibility, and good attitudes, and paying attention, etc and that is all very positive, good driving basics. If and when I can praise the Government I will.

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This Campaign is about lobbying Government as they have been led astray / chosen to go in the wrong direction and are refusing to a degree to correct their mistake. The 'right' Road Safety principals already exist. Often the simple common sense approach can be the very best. As we have slid further and further away from the world's Safest Roads, (now approaching 7th), do you not think that just something must have changed and gone wrong over the last 16 yrs - at least ?
If a Gov took up a new road safety proposal, then various publicity would be forthcoming anyway.
What new road safety proposal might you make ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Take a look at your Press Releases and your media comment. Take a look at this forum. Safespeed is almost entirely anti-speed camera. The campaign will go nowhere if you dismiss people who think differently from you in such a cavalier way. You will remain in the media eye as a tiny group of obsessed people with a huge axe to grind.

I can't see any point in me staying here. As I said a few days ago I came back to see about the charitable status and to see if my reasons for leaving were still valid. Some of you may think that is a victory, but hopefully one or two of you might take on board some of the things that I have been saying. Dismiss them out of hand and the campaign is destined to go along a self-congratulatory, leaderless, downward spiral.

OK - that's harsh - but it is what is happening. You can stop that though.

You need to update your site and you need to update your campaign. The site is almost impenetrable, there is so much information there. It worked when Paul was about as an index, but his encyclopaedic knowledge of the site was the only index. The stats need to be updated so they reflect the most recent figures. If you don't do that you will be seen to not be keeping up with latest figures and may be accused of choosing data to suit. (Some stats may have been updated, but the nature of the front page makes it very difficult to see what is new. The most obvious 'new' part of the site is more than a year old. Keeping a website of this size up to date is a full time job!)

Also Claire, this is going to sound harsh but you need media training, desperately. Looking at your Press Releases, media coverage and listening to clips, they lack what it takes to get the campaigns message across effectively. If there is any money in the account I suggest you look to see what provision there is up in your area - there may be good people in Inverness, but you may have to travel further. I'm not sure if Paul had media training, but if he didn't he made up for it by his enthusiasm, 100% commitment and 100% availability. You don't need those three things to get a good media approach across, but you need to know what your weaknesses are and how to get round them. Please, please do not take the comments of people on this forum and group as indicators of how well you have done in media appearances and - sadly they will be biased because you are saying what they want to hear. I'm sure they will also be very sensitive to your feelings, given the circumstances of you arriving as SafeSpeedv2. Finally, don't be taken in by what journalists say to you, they want a story and it helps to have comment - especially if it is controversial. They'll court you, speak to you, get the story but then tomorrow they'll have forgotten all about you, until the next time they need a controversial soundbite. They'll definitely thank you for your input and tell you that you did well because they may need you again. You aren't important to them, except for putting this story to bed so they can go on to the next one is.

The media spokesperson doesn't have to be you though, it could be any other of the stalwarts of the campaign. Whoever it is, get them media training if you want the campaign to be covered in the best way!

Good luck!

And remember, try to B Cyclist.