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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:56 
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Daily Telegraph

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Motorists face paying tolls to drive on hard shoulder

Motorists face paying tolls to use motorway hard shoulders in an attempt to ease congestion as part of plans being fast-tracked by ministers.

By David Millward, Transport Editor
Last Updated: 9:23AM GMT 30 Oct 2008

Comments 15 | Comment on this article

Within months, officials will draw up plans to create a faster lane for those willing to pay for a quicker journey on the country's busiest roads during the rush hour.

Drivers would pay up to 42 pence a mile to avoid the jams under a model being considered by ministers.

Cars would be fitted with a transponder which fits to the windscreen and is linked to an account held by the motorist.

A payment would be deducted each time the car passed an overhead gantry.

The plans will be included in a review of the road and rail network to be published early next year.

It will also contain options to open up hard shoulders to all motorists free of charge at peak times in an attempt to keep traffic flowing.

Another proposal is building extra toll lanes on motorways for motorists who want to drive faster.

Up to 500 miles of motorway shoulder has been earmarked for the proposals.

This includes large sections of the M1, M6 and M62, along with the M27 around Southampton, the M4 and M5 near Bristol, and sections of the M23, M20, M3 and M4 that feed into the M25

In addition the Government is expected to introduce a system of variable speed limits – known as Active Traffic Management – designed to smooth traffic flow.

Geoff Hoon, the Transport Secretary, has announced that work on the proposals was being speeded up.

The review will also examine plans for additional rail capacity – including a high speed network which would also link the major airports.

However, it is the Government's continuing interest in building additional toll lanes, which was confirmed to the Daily Telegraph by Lord Adonis, the new transport minister, which will catch the eye.

The biggest survey of motorists on the issue, a poll of 12,000 AA members, showed considerable public hostility to the idea, with 58 per cent rejecting the idea.

"There are a number of problems with it," said Edmund King, the AA's president.

"In America there have been problems when a slow driver gets into the toll lane and people resent having to pay to be stuck behind a snail."

The prospect of the introduction of toll lanes raised questions about whether drivers could be put at risk, said Rob Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety.

"There are issues of how you come on and off a motorway," he said.

"If the toll lane is on the inside, it means that drivers who have paid for a faster journey will have to give way to those who have not.

"If the toll lane is the outside lane of the motorway, then toll users will have to cross two to three lines of traffic.

"Either way there could be some serious problems to sort out if they pressed ahead with this proposal,."

The creation of a toll lane would require legislation, which the other options under consideration would not.

It would entail a heavy investment in technology with the construction of the gantries over the toll lanes.

Motorists can expect to see the widespread introduction of Active Traffic Management – a combination of using the hard shoulder and variable speed limits - within the next few years.

This has been tested successfully on the M42 outside Birmingham, Lord Adonis said.

"We think this is capable of a radical extension," said Lord Adonis. "I was extremely impressed by how it reduced congestion, improved road safety reduced journey times."

Officials from the Highways Agency and Department for Transport visited Minnesota during the summer to look at a toll scheme there.

It applies to an 11-mile stretch of road and drivers are charged a fee ranging from about 5p to 42p a mile.

A transponder system is used to collect payments. The technology is already used in Britain on the Dartford crossing.

It is likely a pilot project will be run in Britain within in the next few years, possibly on the M606 near Leeds, which is already being used for a car share trial.


I doubt there will be many using the hard shoulder.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:27 
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I can't believe they are going to introduce those awful variable speed limits. Having driven on the m42 it was seriously dangerous as traffic bunched up no end. It was a relief to get back onto the m6 where traffic flowed more freely even though it was just as busy.

If you have no transponder in the car how are they going to know and charge? I am sure all the unregistered vehicle owners will be laughing their heads off as they whizz up the hard shoulder while everyone else sits in the jam. Also what happens when a vehicle breaks down - where do they go if the hard shoulder is suddenly another lane?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 14:13 
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This is nothing new. They were using it when I was working in California 12 years ago, on the toll roads. Anyone who travels on one without a paid-up transponder gets fined; they do not escape it. My boss often used it on the 91 from LA to Riverside.

I'm guessing over here they would use an ANPR on the hard shoulder in conjunction with the transponder signal to 'see' if you are entitled to use it. If you shouldn't, I'm sure you will receive your 'gift voucher' in the post.

It's all quite doable. More cameras, more fines, more driver persecution, more stuff to make us sick...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 22:58 
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Why not encourage kids to use school bus.. walk or simply flex out or stagger all school hours with working catchment area?

In a "global" market .. we should not all have to be rigid 9-5 as such. And some cam work from home. We have on occasion been able to do so. :wink:

Just a little thought .. can make differences. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 03:38 
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Hey All! I'm sure that someone has to pay for the financial collapse.....might as well be the: little people....eh?

My Company CEO will no doubt have it payed by the "Company" as a Business expense (tax deductable)........that means, "I" pay it!.......ME! From my PAYE pittance!...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 05:28 
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Nothing to stop you speeding up the hard shoulder until you see a gantry, and joining lane 1 while you pass it - with your transponder? :)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 22:15 
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Quickee question,

If I broke down where would I go to when this comes in?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 14:28 
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Another problem, anyone ever been in this situation, you're doing 70 and suffer an engine failure (or just run out of petrol, so you jump into the hard shoulder, put your hazard lights on and coast to a junction or the next services or whatever.

I've done it a couple of times, on one occasion when I was younger and stupider I managed to coast from just after one junction, come off the next junction (which was a downhill) through a roundabout and into a petrol station (only to end up on the wrong side of the pump :oops:) . A more sensible person would probably aim to coast to the next emergency phone as that's safer than walking down the hard shoulder. Under this new scheme I'd get a nice fine for using the hard shoulder without paying.

Firstly, getting into the hard shoulder once broken down and coasting is going to be difficult as you'll be moving from the slowest lane into the fastest lane, there's a good chance that you wont be able to get in at all and will eventually come to a stop in L1, creating massive queues as all the lorries try to overtake you, and a good chance of being rear ended (though the chance of being rear ended if you actually make it to the hard shoulder is probably higher)

Secondly, if they're reading your transponder, it wont be long before they start measuring your speed ala SPECS and fining you for going over 70, who is going to pay to use a lane where you're at increased risk of a fine and points, overall it's probably going to be quicker to risk using L3 if you're a habitual motorway speeder. This isn't a problem in America because "everyone was going that fast" is still a valid defence and you're more likely to get pulled for going slower.

Lastly and it's been pointed out before, toll lanes and HOV lanes only work in america because they're a couple of lanes on a 10 lane highway, so the reduction in capacity when you convert the outside lane is only 10% not 33% like it would be if they tolled the outside lane of a UK motorway. Even so the HOV lanes (in California at least) are still problematic there thanks to them allowing the Prius into them, most folk like to do 85mph and then they all bunch up behind a Prius doing 60. I also hear that the hitchhikers around the start of the HOV lanes are now charging drivers to give them a lift!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 15:29 
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Lum wrote:
Another problem, anyone ever been in this situation, you're doing 70 and suffer an engine failure (or just run out of petrol, so you jump into the hard shoulder, put your hazard lights on and coast to a junction or the next services or whatever.

I've been in that exact situation, L3 @80 odd.....sudden loss of power....you've only got a few seconds to work out how you are going to safely get across to the hard shoulder while your speed is dropping.

I was on the M42 last thursday going up to Manchester and they had the hard shoulder scheme in action, and what I observed left me in no doubt whatsoever that it was simply a time bomb waiting to go off.

Fairly dense traffic....HGV's in L1 at an average of 50mph....L2 not much faster at around 55mph.....and the numpties on the shoulder shifting along at a good 65mph....with no more than a car's length between them for distance :shock:
It only takes the shoulder driver at the front to not notice the broken down vehicle until it's too late, and it's obvious to anybody (anybody with a working brain at any rate) what the outcome is going to be.

The answer to getting our road network moving more efficiently and (more than likely) reducing the accident rate is quite simple.
We need more traffic plod out there, and they need to start coming down hard on the MLM's who insist on doing 60mph - as well as all the twats who think that the 2 second rule doesn't apply because they have a surfeit of electronics at their disposal.

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