Safe Speed Forums

It really a soap box comment.

But.. Panorama did the bottled water piece this week. Lots of cyclists (militant ones admit to this) use this bottled water und not tap water They not saving plantet then


Wild feline way.. I buy a light weighty fell walker "Wainwright type person" bidon from outdoor walk shoppe here. I fill with purest lakeland tap water. I strap to body und suck when I need to.

My bikes? Have olde fashioned shopper complete with nice quaint wicker basket. three gear only. He sturdy machine.


Have my old bike from earlyt teenage days.. Old .. steel. Was "state of art" back then. He trusty.. but a bit slow despite his then avant guard 15 gears.


My mountain bike und my road bike.. clocked up air miles on import /.. as did the fold up und the beach bikes.

We keen cyclists but we know that bicycles/ gadgets to go with them .. have a "deep imprinted carbon footprint" on manufacture.. import.. distribution. We not delude ourselves on this ever.

Add the bottled water und the imported goodies to keep fit .. und we have a very different slant to cycling as gobbling resources industry.

The difference? I do not delude myself or pretend I save the worlde if I ride bicycle or walk. Even my recyling trek has some enviro-cost attached.

I do my bit though.. recycle.. make do.. mend.. We make one monthly trek to dump old newspapers und any jars .. und I always send und buy from charity shoppe too. .. und serve up leftovers too. We also grow what we can too.

But we are realistic in that we know we not really save planet by doing this as famiily units.

We face reality .. not lah-lah land

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

note to self: must try harder

Not at all, I think that this is a most interesting question.

But I will take this into the 'world' of cycle riders, and drivers.

As a rider ...
I can easily understand why some cyclists can get upset with some drivers :

- the way that cars and cut you up, forget that you exist, slam their brakes on after passing you, turning in front of you etc etc .... it is dynamic ....
I can ride the roads and make myself 'small' or ride 'out' and appear 'big'. But all decisions that I make are based upon my safety, and the safety of others.

Then as a driver ...
I can easily see how a cyclist can sometimes be is perceived as someone that might do things which seem extremely unsafe:

to ride several abreast on a main road, and at an extremely slow space - (perhaps quickly for the cyclist) is in car driving terms, still very slow, I
then the cyclists that use pavements when busy with people, then the one's that disobey the red lights and ignore 'no cyclists' lane etc dart across the road,
.... it is also dynamic ....

So we have two groups that can 'irritate' or 'blend' with each other. For the most part the dynamic interaction is worked out with some exceptions.
This is typical - most people try to 'get along', observe and be safe for them and those around them.

So if we now, can dissect this, into who created, what 'tension' and 'changes in behaviour' for this situation.
If the driver observes and understands 'where the cyclist' is coming from when in a car,
and
the cyclist observes and understands 'where the driver' is coming from when on a bike,

surely then why do we have a problem .... I see it as the following :

the council (with all the Government behind it and the rules that govern the council) are encouraged to make things better .... (whether necessary or not).

The interaction between the car and bike is then divided, each given their own lane - place 'to be' on the road. Priority to the bike at the front of the lights, right turn for bikes and separate lights ... the list goes on ....
So suddenly, the driver that has 'worked' with, (for the most part) cyclists is suddenly told 'you can't control your behaviour, you endanger the cyclist'.
And the cyclist may or may not like this (I for one don't like the seggration).

As soon as you alter this previous connection you have (and as it being proven), divided the community. Instead of saying to a driver - be a responsible driver - be careful of the cyclist. S/He is told - don't worry about the cyclist - we have taken care of them for you - just watch out now and again.

And to the cyclist :
It's Ok now we have given you separate lanes and lights, and areas, placed you in front of cars (!!!) at the lights- you go on ahead - you've got your 'own' position on the road now .... use it and go forth !!!

This is a very serious segregation of society. By making one group (feel) more important then another is divides, and with it, it changes the perception with which we view the other side ...
the gov / Council in their incessant need to 'appear' to be doing something (yet again) has in fact caused the 'incitement to differentiate!'

As soon as you tell one part of society that they are better / different from another - you alter the balance, in which the other side perceives the other. So it is all set up and ready for each side to the judge and nit-pick.

Then the driver sees - the lane reduced, waits at the lights, while the cyclist peddles off, sees the cyclists disobey rules, it creates a tension that was not there before (and if it was - only a minor percentage). Before we worked 'with' each other, now we are told to be separate and let the other one have their space which is fundamentally different.

The odd infringement of a cyclist on an empty rural pavement maybe the safest place, but in a town or park (perhaps) with others about, may not be.

The cyclist is now treated with 'special' treatment and has an 'ownership'
of road and a 'place' to 'be', however for some this may manifest itself into a 'worth of importance' that is unfounded and probably not intended.

The request to a driver or rider, to be careful and to 'take care' of each other is disbanded. Although feebly still stated, it is not believed, or trusted, by the alterations to the psychology of the council's actions nto alter the road layouts and systems.

If you like it imbalances the perceptions of each side. Each is given a new status that is easily misinterpreted ... which is really sad, as safety of each is the looser.
... fit 4 purp

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Thanks for the detailed reply, Safespeedv2. It hints at what I've been getting at all along - that the Government are trying their hardest to drive wedges between different groups of road users as a "divide & conquer" strategy, and far too many people are falling for it.

The constant propaganda attacks on 4x4 owners is another perfect example - they offer (seemingly) hard justification for existing predjudices. In other words, pouring fuel onto a fire.

Promoting Cycling as an ALTERNATIVE to car use (rather than complementary, which most of the posts here would indicate that it really is) is once again an attempt to divide people into 2 camps. Are we really all that stupid?

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

Thanks. Happily there are not just two camps - probably 5 (adds to the 'fun and games', but people are not really 'that' stupid it is just that many minority groups, often get a loud voice ... and the public do not have the time in their very busy schedules, to 'take that much notice, and get involved.
it is (sadly) only when they have had an incident that they take notice and look into things ...

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Claire Liebchen

Way to Go!


Liebster IG post the other side... from C+

It linked though


But once upon time we all share roads. It still happen abroad despite the stats I mention

I fear political correct nonsenses forge some kind of abyss which create dangers as result of engineered nightmare politics .. which are the dream of the politically correct idiots really

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Thanks:lol:

...or even the completely over engineered schemes, just for the sake of it - yet again - the we must 'be seen to be doing 'something'' brigade, when in some cases doing absolutly nothing is best. Like the BP logo that they spent £1million on only to do nothing !

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I can easily answer this one because I hate absolutely everyone on the road until they prove themselves worthy of admiration by their actions.

Am I taking a 'superior' position?.....hell yeah! and it doesnt take much in this country, for the more capable ones to be superior over the masses.

"Why do cyclists hate cars so much?"

There are two types of road user, those who have a pop about a perceived wrong and those who read the road and pre-empted it, what you guys call COAST.

I'll wager good odds the vast majority of the car-loathing cyclist brigade could benefit from a critical examination of their own abilities and attitudes.

The rest of cyclists probably see other traffic as little more than an irritation and a 99.9% manageable risk.

I think as roads become ever more congested, conflict in intentions between road users increases, which is amplified between different types of road user who become a nuisance to each other as many in all groups care little for each others difficulties and intentions. It's easy to see the world from your own POV and no-one elses, be your POV cyclist, car driver, HGV, bus etc.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

1 is more of a lack of observation than as a result of "speed". Which then again reverts to the SafeSpeed policy.

2 I for one could appreciate a compromise here. But somethings must go completely like cameras on motorways along with the speed limit from motorways.

3 I don't feel 20 zones are necessary because I have never seen a proper driver go down a packed street at 30, yet I have seen the odd boy racer going at speeds inappropiate for the conditions which were in excess of the normal 30 limit for the roads in question anyhow.

Sorry guys I had to reply to that.

Now back on topic. SafeSpeedv2 said pretty much everything. Let me just say, I try my best to treat everyone as an individual on the roads. If people are respectful then I respect them back and there is no bad feeling, everyone gets on lovely. I remember months ago on a driving lesson coming up to some cyclists I was nervous about what to do but they all went into single file and I passed them in perfect harmony. What I don't like is some cyclists confusing the issues and saying that they are green for the environment and safer for pedestrians which I have seen on some comments on news articles.

This weekend I will be doing my Pass Plus by the way, which will be my first time driving since I passed So what I am trying to get at is these different "groups" tend to create friction not only between themselves but between other people who get annoyed for whatever reason and direct their annoyance to people who could be a member of their respective groups. This also applies to accidents on the road, if someone riding a bike was to do something stupid then the driver could say "Bloody cyclists. Hate 'em all" and the cyclist reacts by moaning about drivers just because the driver generalised about the cyclist. And it would have a knock on effect with the other cyclists that driver encounters.

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Currently undergoing training with the I.A.M.

The longer that the Government /Councils continue to drive the wedge further into the divide, (of their making) the more the different sides will part. To segregate society is an appalling act by any Government. No wonder our morals have dropped to an all time low.

I see this as a propaganda exercise by this government, to enable the public to be 'convinced' that they are 'right', in their desire to be removed from their cars and onto (or into) other forms of transport. Then with the propaganda machine in full action, those that are so convinced then try to convince others of their beliefs, despite often never looking at the facts for themselves, but just purely 'stating things' they have heard and not understood the reasoning behind it.
Hence the power of propaganda. Bit like MLM marketing, convince a few and those then convince others and so on and so on ...
Perhaps somewhere the government has stated that they want to make car drivers as unpopular as drink driving.
the only problem is that people can easily see the logics and common sense behind the drink driving laws but not the persecution of the car driver.

So follow this pattern of behaviour to two sections of society, that are both pretty powerful, and you have a flowing balance, (some go with one side, as others go with the other, as well as flow between the two), and you can end up, in a never ending circle of growing hate, and discomfort, until eventually, they wear each other out, cancel each other out, or, see the madness of the action, and agree to get on !
How sad !
Hence the need for Intelligent Road safety ...

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Maybe cyclists hate that:

1. Cars will often take up every inch of roadspace in a jam and leave cyclists no room to get through
yet
2. On an uncongested road where the car would be moving faster they are intolerant if a cyclist is delaying them and will try to force the cyclist off the road in order to overtake sooner rather than later.

3. Many road designs and signal phasing are designed around cars and motor-vehicles. As a result a cyclist will often ignore a road signal when it is safe to do so on a bicycle (but where it would not be safe to do so in a car). An example of this is turning left on red or going ahead where the only road merging is from the right and there is enough room for everyone, or at a pedestrian light where all the pedestrians have crossed.

Incidentally as someone who now rides a moped a lot, I often find I am delayed by slow-moving motor vehicles but never find I am delayed by a slow-moving cyclist as they are easy to overtake.

Some are really silly. On recent holiday in France - met up with a couple of the relatives who happen to ferry disabled blue badge entitled around. One of them parked up correctly in the middle of a disabled bay. Her car was perfectly lined up with the disabled sign at the centre of her bonnet and her car was evenly between some metal marker studs for the bay itself. France does not always have hatched markings on each side of the bay - but there are metal studs in the cobbles to give the extra space as required.

Enter the British family on a cycling holiday . sporting T-shirts telling us what sort of cyclists they might be,...

We were not proven wrong... I and another relative had parked elswhere and were approaching the disabled's vehicle to lend a hand with the wheelchair when the lady driver was confronted by the cyclist who was chaining his bike to the disabled post.

He accused her of "parking carelessly and taking up two parking spaces". She pointed out she was in a bay for the disabled .. to which he called her a rude name and screamed that she was not "disabled" (She is slim and rather fit looking admittedly) . To her credit .. she remained calm and replied that thankfully, she was not, but her passenger was the one with the blue badge . To her and my own astonishment - this idiot then went off on one about disabled "parking for free" . Um .. in France it's as it should be.. you pay for the time parked .. the badge only allows you the right to the prime and wider bay.

Anyway, his face was a picture of purple rage (and we cannot fathom any other reason other than some unexplicable and bizarre hatred of car drivers) which did him no favours. Either that or he had realised that the Tour had passed through there over a week beforehand... ) After 10 minutes of this tirade of whatever, which seemed to include anyone who dared drive any car.. whilst we extricated the disabled passenger who cannot walk at all.. and fastened into the wheel chair.. a FRENCH cyclist walks up and taps us on the shoulder ... points at the British cyclist and left us in no doubt as to what he thought of this particular w:censored:r.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Then there is the letter in last week's CW..

If you recall .. I posted up some article about CW objecting to Nokia sponsoring an event .. claiming this "encourages use of the phone whilst driving" One reader responded with the fact that we should all drive/use the roads with due consideration to others. This "cyclist" agrees with both of those comments .. and then continues





I had someone walk into me with a shopping trolley when shopping with my wife.... He was not looking where he was going.. He caught the back of my leg.

We have recently had two deaths when cyclists have collided with pedestrians .. causing them to fall awkawrdly and hit heads on a sharp kerb edge.

All life carries a risk... It's how you take the responsibility for reducing that risk and exercising that duty of care to everyone else which matters

So what is this pillock's answer?



DA _DA DAHHH!




I think I have lost the will to breathe as breathing can be dangerous .. all that methane from his farting tailpipe of too many pulses ....




Methinks this guy's eaten far too many lentiils here.


Either that or it's Jezza Clarkson winding them up

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

In the area where I live cyclists do time trials using major routes I find their activity one of the most hazardous activities Ive seen on public roads. There is very little warning, they often ride in packs on a public road (overtaking one another willy nilly wandering all over the place)that isnt closed, they nearly always ride frantically with their heads down paying no attention to the fact they are on a public road, they have no escorts, they often stop without pulling over suddenly to adjust their lycra I suspect and worst of all they do U-turns without looking as their mind is elsewhere.This is not just a dig at cyclists(sporty type) but at the authorities as well, how no one has been wiped out surprises me.Then all these road contious cyclists jump in their cars and bugger off home.. obviously too tired to cycle home!

ignoring the various troll like diversions for now:

i dont think you'll find any recognised time trial course with a u-turn in.
same with riding in bunches, road races will be escorted, not sure how 2-up time trials work on that score tho.
not much you can do about 2 time triallers passing each other.

time trials have a specific allowance in the RTA i beleive... which tbh i'm surprised the HSE police havent removed yet.

Ya see there ya go you tell me what you THINK, I tell you what actually happened and has happened on several occasions. I did not say the time trial course had a U-turn in now did I? I said, and you quoted it, that they did U-turns! FACT! It was indicated in paper as time trials and there were groups togeather on the road FACT. Riders just stopped in the road without pulling over. FACT. There were no visible escorts only a few checkpoints or direction sites (who knows, people with watches and clip boards) They travelled in both directions too, so maybe they did have a turn point. Im not a sporty cyclist so I dont have a clue how things are organised by the lycras, I am only posting what I saw and what I know.
Would you explain exactly the meaning of a troll like diversion please? Ya see I know what a troll is and I know what a diversion is and I know what ignoring means as well as various but I dont understand your sentance and its meaning......do you?

Many of these club events need some kind of permit from the local councils these days Some of them are at risk because of heavy HSE requirements and a requirement for insurance and related sisk assessments these days. ..

I think folk are fine if they have adequate signing and alternative routes around these events.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

well i suppose i better respond to this. there are various troll like characteristics to your post that rub me up the wrong way, sorry.. i cant help that.

expressing what i think is kind of the point of a discussion forum. i still think you'll struggle to find an open time trial course with a u-turn in, as far as i'm all TT courses have to be approved by BIB and i can't see them accepting a u-turn.

perhaps you could take a look at the cycling time trials site and identify which course it is you have a problem with ?

and rather than extrapolate your FACTS to demonise all cyclists / time trialists on a forum that will have no effect on their behaviour, express your concerns to the powers that be.


(off to my first 10mile TT for a few years tonight, mostly dual carraigeway and with not one but two u-turns.. on roundabouts, wish me luck.. oh and yes i'll be driving there and back if thats ok with you)

You only have to read CW to see how the "elf/safe tea leaves and other politically correct idiots have hi-jacked common sense


A lot.. of cycling event.. too many.. are finding life difficult under daft health and safety legislatiion. risk assessment . insurance and police invoices for supervision

I fear the pee-cee idiots are winning and are being helped along by the militant kill-joys who think ridiing a bike "saves the planet". In this .. they have swallowed a myth. They may think those who belive in "god" are cranks... but the bigger cranks are those who swallow the politically correct . green .. progress hating myth..

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.