Safe Speed Forums

Just received a NIP for doing 46 in a 40. Everything on the NIP seems in order and I was definitely driving at the time.
I have 3 previous SP30 points (aug '06)

Just a few questions...

1. I didn't even realise they would prosecute at 46 in a 40... is there a set 'range' (I'd heard it was 10% plus 3mph)?
2. I had just been through a fixed camera at 40 and then there was a mobile about 800 yards further along the road. I was overtaking in lane 2 of a dual carriageway as I passed the fixed camera; I was doing about 40 and the car in lane 1 was doing a few mph less. After the fixed camera, the car in lane 1 increased their speed. I increased also in order to complete the overtaking move safely (in my opinion). I obviously got up to 46 and I would have been in the same vicinity as the vehicle in lane 1 when passing the mobile site. It was the mobile site that got me. Question is, would any of this give me mitigating circumstances, or is there anything else there to get me off?
3. It says on the back of the form that there may be an option of a speed awareness course, limits are as follows (for offences after 1st April 2007): 40mph limit - 46 to 50mph. How do I know if I can take this option? There is a photocopied sheet in the envelope that says do not phone/write asking to go on a course - if you are eligible, one will be offered. However it does not say when it will be offered... with the NIP or with the conditional offer?

1. ACPO say it's 10% +2mph minimum.
2. No chance of mitigation. The mobile after a fixed camera is a classic.
3. They may or may not offer the awareness course. It's their call. The course is instead of the fine/points (i.e. the penalty) thus it will be offered after you plead guilty.

Refer to pepipoo if you need further details.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Damn, so I was right on the minimum limit. That has to be bad luck?!

I'm not going to bother to have a rant about people being able to use common sense - I was trying to complete my manouvre as quickly and safely as possible, and that's why I got caught - surely jockeying with another car for a mile and a half as you're both doing 42mph is more dangerous!?

What are the chances of asking about calibration, or the car next to me making the speed reading innacurate and all of that? Or is that why they build in 10% +2 so that even if you proved the thing was a couple off, they can still say 'it's still above the limit'.

Don't want to raise hopes but isn't there something (unless I've got it out of context) about only being one vehicle in the area at the time ??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

OK, I had a quick look around and found this: http://www.pepipoo.com/files/ACPO/ACPO_full.htm
which states for roadside radar, that the device must not be operated from within a vehicle and that operators and cars should be clearly identifiable. The device that got me was definitely inside a vehicle that wasn't 'obviously' a police car. I think it was plain white from memory. How do I know what kind of device was used and whether that use was valid or fair? It also states about a single car being in range, and there was definitely another vehicle within the vicinity. Do I have to plead guilty in order to get any of this confirmed or can I request information when I get the conditional offer?

The mobile unit will probably be an LTI 20-20 laser meter which can be aimed specifically at one vehicle. Others nearby will not affect the reading. That is if you think this device is accurate and legally type approved.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Not wanting to raise false hopes - I qualified my last post - we need some one like smeggy to quote chapter and verse .Perhaps a visit to peppipoo ??
Was only looking at posibilities .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

A bit of a bummer isnt it at that speed it isnt that much of an increase,but then this is how they are going to make their money and its proved it as they will no doubt offer you the course,so, they get three times the revenue with these courses wher before you would just have been overlooked until about 50 to 52mph before they would have pinged you.

If I was you take the course if its offered as trying to fight it could be a lost cause,and any way you might need the mitigation later for a more higher speed if you are foolish enough,and as you know you can only mitigate on your behalf with the same story once in a three year period,so,its up to you what you do.
Stephen

Update: faxed yesterday to request the photos to aid driver id just in case it shows any discrepancy. I asked for them by post, but just wondered if they email these things if I'd asked?

If no joy from the photos, I just hope they offer the course. I just feel gutted that they will just push these things through for probably the 1 second of 46mph rather than going there at night when the boy racers use it as a drag strip.

Pics arrived - doesn't look like I've got a hope so NIP will go in the post tomorrow. Hoping to get offered the course.
The hit:


The location - 167 metres away as shown by the line - the fixed camera is approx level with the bottom of the picture. I wish I had such good perception as to judge the difference between 40 and 46mph at a distance of 162 metres across the dual carriagway and bend....

Why does it say "FL" and not "NR"?

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Andrew.

I have recently located a large document all about LTI20-20 and there are ALL sorts of problems with beam width and inaccuracies (not real news) - I notice that your NIP is also around a bend which I believe may also be a problem ... there have always been errors with these units. Check calibration - the last one and when the next one is due, (may show your 'camera unit', may have had errors when used in your case).
Dr L is likely to be around these forums in a bit ... he has done much research into gatso's and many others have also looked into LTI20-20 ...
I agree that you may hope for the Course, but I totally understand that when a system is not achieving it's objectives, it is hard to submit to it's demands and requests.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

The camera van must be marked police in "day-to-day" opperations. and parked within 10 feet of the carriageway. However if it was a covert sting opperation then they must keep a log of the opperations.and all the rules fly out of the window.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

There is more than sufficient angle there to present a slip possibility, along the side of your car, from the back to the front as they pan the gun following the moving target. If the camera alignment were out by just 2 metres in 162 to the left - an eitieth of a radian - just over half a degree... I'd definitely fight it if I were being stung here. However, you need to be sure of your facts to take this line. What I would do and what I might advise others to do are definitely two separate things. If you want more details of the slip effect, PM me and I'll give you chapter and verse. Presumably all you have to do at this stage is confirm you were the driver. Or do you already have a COFP with the NIP?

Edit: S**t - sorry - just realised I missed this first time around - thought I was replying to a fresh post not one a month old. Sorry.

How are you getting on?

Agree with Roger . how are you diddling here.?

Do let us know . I hope you were lucky and accepted a Speed Aware... if offereed here.

I am so sorry that some are not like here.. but be warned that we have prosecuted for careless driving at the speed limit and even below the limit - based on observations.

But Let us know what happened and do join in any discussion as your input would always be of merit.

I cannot say fairer . and I am sorry things appear pear shaped for you ..

I missed this post.. but it's still not too late if you are contesting in court. Give us more details.. and post the same to the pepipoo site. We can adives on ehere as to how to behave and peipoos can perhaps point in direction of legal advice ... but I'd still consult CAB and local library for the free consults

I cannot suggest fairer/ best of luck. Let us know what happens and do chat in any forum, It helps us get to "know" you

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