Safe Speed Forums

To the OP, why exactly did you decide to drive on your own that day?

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

I'm not sure if I should even post this. Mods please delete if necessary

Basically you have a two options

1) Forget who was driving on that day. You will be taken to court and charged under Section 172, failure to provide the details of the driver, 6 points and a fine of up to £1000. There's also the risk that the photograph may identify you and they'll do you for speeding anyway. Do you know if it was a front facing or rear facing camera that got you.

2) Admit to driving. It's not that uncommon for learners to get speeding tickets, hope that no-one notices you're unaccompanied. You stand a reasonable chance of succeeding because the ticket office will not know you're on a provisional licence, when they receive your admission they will issue a "Conditional Offer" of £60 and 3 points. You send that, plus your licence plus your money to the Magistrates Court who will put the points on your licence, but they do not see your photograph. The advantage of this is that you haven't actually lied at any stage in the process.
However if someone notices you are completely screwed for all the reasons stated in this offence

Personally I would get a lawyer, actually no, personally I wouldn't have been such a fucking idiot in the first place. It's not like the whole "not allowed to drive unaccompanied" rule is some obscure bit of law that normal people aren't expected to know.

Well, that was quite powerful Lum.

Not disagreeing with you, but I have a confession. When I was young I took liberties too, (cough ), and although I won’t go into detail I think it's a fact of life that when you are young you are, we all are, very different to someone of a more mature disposition. It's why the cost of insurance goes down with age. (My worst crime wasn't just knocking on a strangers door and running away.)

So although I agree he was a 'very naughty boy', I am careful not be too judgemental

Anyone else big enough to admit they didn't always go by the book?

Hmm.. Just me then

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

We all did bad/illegal things when we were young, myself included (I too was an idiot at times, and I'm not yet old enough to forget this), and I do agree with you. If I didn't I wouldn't have tried to help the guy with some advice on how to minimise the fallout from this.

And yeah since his insurance is completely invalid this really is very serious. I don't actually care about the speeding 'offence', and if 'driving otherwise than within accordance with a licence' was a standalone offence that didn't mean anything else, I wouldn't care too much about that. You harm no-one but yourself with those two (assuming you get caught), however as that offence also invalidates your insurance, and uninsured drivers mean that in the event of an accident, some other poor sod is left with no transport (and possibly no wages) and no way to get anything done about it, short of shelling out from their own pocket, and that's the point where I start to get really really angry, especially given my recent experiences with an untraceable driver and a written off car.

In all professions you get a % of complete toss pots and this does include instructors (though most today do little instructing, just simply correcting mistakes already made, IF they notice) Am I being hard on todays instructors? Well Ive been around them for years and watch them in action all the time, few impress me at all so I think not!

If a road user doesnt have a good solid grasp of the H/C and basic traffic law by the time they are tested they are not fit to be on the road in my book. The onus is with instructors as well as the pupil to ensure this, but there will be plenty who will make their excuses.

Sorry Tone, if you're driving solo on a provisional licence and get caught then you deserve all thats coming. We're not talking about scrumping a few apples here are we.

And what on earth is 'overspeeding' when its at home?

I was that soldier ce but I didn't get caught.

When I started on the roads in 1975 I rode on L plates into Birmingham town to discover the roads and places etc. All was going well until I found myself on a big multi-lane road with traffic around me like a swarm of locust. I'd never been on a road this big before There were signs overhead which I simply couldn't take in. My eyes must have looked like I'd got nystagmus!

I was worried about where I was and the traffic while trying to make sense of the world around me. I was only 17, I couldn't even grow a beard, I didn't know this was going to happen I ended up going north on the M6. (Yes, you guessed it. I was approaching Spaghetti junction )

Now like I said, I didn't get done for it but I like to think if an officer had seen me he would have pulled me over and gave me a 'good talking to' and maybe help me off the motorway.

Of course these days, with cameras and ANPR etc., there is no such thing as mitigating circumstances. Not good IMHO.

Maybe you think I should have felt the full force of the law ce but I don't. It was an honest mistake and I wasn't actually putting anyone in danger.


Beats me

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

That situation and this are completely different.

You were on a bike and thus legally entitled to ride solo, you made a mistake and ended up on the M6 by accident.

the OP was in a car and was therefore never entitled to ride solo, they were breaking the law the moment they started that car's engine


Edit: Out of interest, if the OP is still following this thread, what did you decide to do in the end and how did you get on?

Soz for saying it Lum but I can't let that go I may have been "entitled to ride solo" but not on a motorway. In that respect, in the eyes of the law, I was as guilty as him at that point! (I wasn't "overspeeding" mind you ) At the time, it was illegal to use a motorway on L plates but an officer would, and could, have understood and helped rather than just penalise which is what we have today sadly.

My point was that a scamera does not recognise the term "by accident". If the same happened today, just as you are starting out in life you would be instantly branded 'bad', (and another crime solved), where an officer would most likely have understood the situation for what is was and deal with it accordingly I see the OP as young and foolish. I also see a younger 'me' in him. Is it really in everyone's best interest to hang draw and quarter him?



Yes, I'm interested too If you have learned from it gb100 - good If not, then I hope you eventually get the book thrown at you.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Shades of grey. That's what this is. You were intending to abide by the law and were doing so quite admirably until you made an unfortunate mistake, any reasonable police officer would see this and deal with the situation accordingly, hopefully they'd give you a talking to, and then escort you to the next junction.

The op was not complying with the law at any point on that drive. It's not like they ran afoul of some obscure that they couldn't reasonably be expected to be aware of. It's printed on the back of the provisional licence!

As it applies to your mistake, I agree with you entirely

I'm not calling for a hanging or anything of the sort. Remember I did start with advice as to how to minimise the fallout from this. I believe that now the OP realises how much shit they could be in due to driving without a licence they aren't going to do it again, regardless of any punishment they may be given. I hope he "gets away" with just the 3pts/£60 from the speeding ticket, and if for some reason the Camera Prats screw up and have to cancel the offence, meaning the OP gets off scott free then I will laugh my arse off.

On the issue of the alledged offence....would the CTO and the SCP offices be joined up enough to check whether or not the accused was actually driving solo? I bet they just press the collect button.

Mind you, given that the alleged offence appears to be 'overspeeding' then they may take it far far more seriously.

It's unlikely, things like that really do depend on if anyone notices as it passes through the system. Don't give them a reason to pull the picture out again once they know you're on a provisional licence and you'll probably get away with it.

Of course the court's fixed penalty office may have additional procedures in place if they receive a provisional licence in the post, but I doubt it.

It is simple this one he knows he has done wrong, so he doesn,t need all the lectures about being a fool, what he is asking for is some down to earth advice and not slagging off for what he has done, and he has 2 options and one is to lie through his backteeth (technically) as one post says (and hope he gets away with it which is very unlikely) or go and see a solicitor asap or citizens advice bureau for help and pay for proper representation in court when that happens as judging by what has been said it certainly will.

To take the courts to be foolish is as silly as what he has already done and is asking for more problems

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"There But For The Grace of God Go I"

"He Who Ain,t Made Mistakes Ain,t Made Anything"

Spannernut

But if it's a camera and automatic justice then he may be very lucky and simply have the points??

The whole point of a points system is to punish without banning. If a young driver or a provisional driver is treble penalised into an escalating ball of trouble then we risk creating a person who will never be a legal driver.

This case has got me thinking...

If he is done for 3 points speeding, 3 points motorway use and 6 points insurance and banned 6 months he then tries to get insurance and gets a £5k quote so he drives without insurance and we have created the worst situation, a driver outside the system. One who may never comeback within the system? There is a need to devise a route back into the system for "lost sheep"

In each county there must be 100 "lost sheep" that do a significant amount of damage. I believe we should be using our resources more efficiently bring those lost sheep back into the system rather than chasing them round the backstreets each night.

It may require a restricted driving licence, a special insurance scheme and restricting them to employer’s vehicles and low power or day time driving. It may mean blood testing.
It may mean re-licensing drivers who have killed and got a conviction record 3 pages long

I know gut feeling it is wrong to reward bad behaviour
But if you spend £500k chasing them compared with £400k rehabilitating them + 3 lives saved you have a net profit of £100k and 3 lives

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Exactly!

But unfortunately this is what has been happening with the speeding issue and an ever-growing number of disaffected people.

As a high mileage driver myself who depends on a licence to continue my work, I am more likely to get points. If or when that day comes and I get banned I will leave the country like the many others I know who's backs have been broken by the speeding/banning straw.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yes, it is! So this idiot knowingly drove in an irresponsible way and we should help him out?

As Lum said

What do you think about a kid who goes out with a knife deliberately knowing that he might use it? Best let him off as he didn't mean any harm. He didn't know... If we don't punish him he might turn out alright in the end.

Tough luck. He got caught. Everyone should take responsibility for their own actions - including 17year olds who supposedly have been through our schooling system.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I'm with Malcom on this

Though I still reckon that if he completes the s172 like a good boy then accepts the FP offer nothing more will happen beyond the 3 points anf fine.

Even if they do question him as do his companion It's not as if he won't be able to rustle up a suitable accessory after the fact is it.

So you want harsh punishment, rather than safer roads?
I would rather have people receive the appropriate punishment and remain employed and driving WITH insurance.

I believe if he was stopped by a traffic car they might hve chosen which offences to persue and which to ignore. Where the robots in the camera partnership would just follow the book. But maybe I m wrong.


The whole point is that society gets a bigger benefit than the "lost sheep"
the "lost sheep(s)" gets to drive
Society gets legal driver(s), tax payer(s), less road carnage.

Depending on the list of offences, the lost sheep could be matched & mentoured by mot testers, or police officers in a sort of driving parole conditions.
A small mentouring scheme like this was running for off road biker kids in conjunction with the redbridge hill fire stationwho were fed up of scraping them off the road.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code