Safe Speed Forums

My husband decided he was going to change his car and this weekend he found what he wanted, which is a 1600 petrol Fiat Multipla. Not everyone's cup of tea, but both he and I suffer with our backs and for the last 6 years have driven bigger vehicles that a higher than the normal hatchback or saloon because this alleviates many of the problems we have. Mainly for me, it is the physical getting in and out of the vehicle. Once in a while it does not cause a problem, but to do this on a daily basis puts regular strain on my lower back to the degree that I end up not being able to get out of the house for days or weeks.

My point here is that people like us, and I am sure there must be many, not just with back problems, but other physcical problems that a certain type of vehicle would alleviate, are penalised not just by the fact that larger vehicles tend to use more fuel, but also through vehicle taxation. My husband looked up the tax for this 'new' vehicle and was surprised to see that it is £210 for a year, whereas a Fiat Cinqacento is only £36. Now, we could go out and buy a Fiat Cinqacento, or similar and pay just £36 per year tax and a lot less in fuel, however we would end up having a lot of time off work due to back problems and physically not being able to get out of the house to go to work, never mind, in my case, sit at a computer all day. Ultimately, we could both end up on permanent sick benefit as no employer will be willing to take us on with back problems that cause us to have a lot of time off work!

Now, I thought the government were waging a war against people on long term sick and trying to get them back into work. How does robbing us blind on car tax and fuel duty help with this, when all we need in order to remain fit enough to go to work each day is a larger vehicle to drive?

Too many arbitrary decisions are made by government, local and national, that have far reaching repercussions on ordinary, everyday folk who are trying, against all odds, to just get on with their lives and work to pay their own way, but at the end of the day, we always end up worse off.

This is because the idiots who thought up this "envy tax" can't seem to see that it's DRIVING the car that causes the CO2, not owning it. Any (so called) environmental tax should be on fuel use not on VED.

That is, of course, if you believe the validity of carbon emissions argument at all.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Freedom and envy tax, that is what I see it as.
The tax on my little 1.6 goes up to £270 come 2009.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

If either of you are registered disabled you can register the car as disabled and not pay any tax at all.

My wife has MS and had lower back pain and poor control of her legs . We bought a 1.3 yaris verso which is very easy to get into. http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/t ... -2000.aspx
At one point I had to walk her to the car, sit her down and lift her legs in. This was so much easier because the seat was at"bum height" there are substancial roof rails inside and out that aid when walking is difficult.

The back seats are good for full size adults . They dont make them any more but get a fully spec eletric windows/air con as the car is a bit of a green house with all that glass. Remove the speedo pod and work down to replace the pen holder with a sony cd-radio (it just plugs in)
Tax band c. I have had ours for 70,000 miles and 6 years. I had no bills for 6 years then this year I got my first mot fail. on rear suspension bushes, exhaust and the streering rack gaitor failed and grit and stones ruined the rack.

The car doubles as a van as the seats fold under the floor. It can cruise all day at 100mph if you can find the room. The petrol tank is small. the fuel gage flashes empty and you refill it with 35l yet it is a 50l tank. (Grrr) it is very spacious and comfortable and it does the job well.

Getting disability living allowance with mobility component is not easy. Either you need to have a permanant illness like MS, blindness, parkinsons. Or you need to be inable to walk 100m without 2 sticks. Then you would be car tax exempt.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Thanks for all your responses.

Fortunately, neither of us are registered disabled, but that does not mean we are not concerned about the problems we have with our backs and do what we can to keep ourselves fit and well. I am sure we all know that backs can be funny things, especially once you have a weakness - they can be very painful and debilitating too.

Anton, it was interesting hearing about the Yaris and this may be worth looking into, however having a large dog (Greyhound) and my husband being 6 feet + with his height in his torso and me being 5 feet 9 with my height coming from my long legs, we both have different needs, in that he needs more headroom than I do, but I need more leg room!

In the past, when we have tried out smaller vehicles or been passengers in other cars that are fairly small, we have always found them to be quite uncomfortable and even a short distance can cause some discomfort for days to follow.

I realise that you can please some of the people some of the time and none of the people all of the time, but it is about time that our servants, those that are supposed to represent us in government, realised that neither is everything in life black and white, there are a few thousand, if not millions, of shades of grey in between which affect many people in different ways. Many of these need to be looked into and addressed before government's bright ideas get pushed through!

As I sais in my original post, if we had to drive a small, low vehicle then we would both very soon be on disablement benefit as we would be spending more time at home than at work, as getting about would become almost impossible.

I think, in a nutshell, governments, local and national have to remember that all actions cause reactions, some reactions not always beneficial ones!

I am not sure about the greyhound but I am 6'2" it is the best car for visability and leg room.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

The 2008 VED changes are just another stealth tax.

The Government don't want you to buy a "greener" car. They don't want you to use your car less. They don't give a stuff about the environment. They just want your money.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

Totally agree with that antera, they know people won't give up their cars so just keep taxing them. And that goes for allot of other things in life.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Thanks again Anton - will have to bear that in mind.

Absolutely agree with you Antera and Dixie. Bit like smoking really, the government don't want people to give up - where all that tax revenue come from if they did? Don't mind persecuting them though!

Now this could be a bit of grandmothers and eggs -but if not may give some food for thought .
In lean times few years ago did a bit of part time taxi driving and occasionally some old biddie would ask for a car as opposed to a cab . One old hand told me to park a bit further from the kerb than normal so that the passengers feet were on the road ( as opposed to being on the pavement)as such they did not have to lower themselves further to get into the seat . Found it did work .

(edit - seat needs to be as far back as possible )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Neat idea Botach, however, usually do get into cars 'on the flat' and not from a kerb, and unfortunately it doesn't seem to help! Must be my long legs!

I see today that the wind is blowing against these retrospective VED changes rather like happened to the 10p tax abolition. Remember it's being introduced next year which is a bit close to an election for comfort and it WILL affect lots of lower income voters.

The 10p tax change was set to cost some £200+ per year. The VED will do similar.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Indeed, a 7 or 8-yo 1.8 or 2.0 Mondeo is exactly what many lower income voters are likely to be driving.

Apparently even cars such as a 1.6 Hyundai Lantra will have to pay £400+ VED, as their engines were designed in the days before anyone focused on CO2 emissions.

I really must write a letter to my (Labour) MP on this issue.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

My mates Mrs is disabled. A while ago I gloated that my Civic was cheaper to tax than his Laguna. WRONG. "It's Motability mate" was the reply, "we just put fuel in it". cock.

There is an allowance you get and you can add to it if you want. They service, tax and insure it. There is a milage ceiling, but if you go over it's peanuts per mile. They are about to change there 140hp oil buring Golf that was very fast for summat new and all it's cost them is a bit of fuel. Some times I wonder if my broken neck could have caused more damage, at least I would have some nice wheels....

What you need to understand is that if you have MS or parkinsons etc you need exactly the right car whether it is fuel efficent or not. I do not drive a "pope-mobile" for no good reason. It has seats at the right height, air con, easy access ect.
I sold a perfectly good 2 year old car which I had invested in a 120,000 mile, 5yr warrantee because my wife could no longer get into it for £2,500 and had to buy a £7,000 car. Meanwhile our earning plans were severly restricted by her MS as promotion goes out of the window as soon as you ask for " reasonable adjustment" at work. The 3 bed semi we owned out right became unsuitable. I then had to take out a £140k mortgage to buy a bungalow where we can live downstairs knowing that one of our wages could stop soon. (5.5 times my wages)
You can have a cheap car on motorbility or take the money which is about £2700 per year and you get free road tax. If you need a heavily modified berlingo, floor cut out , roof cut out ramp fitted no air con etc. the bill is about £20k and you are expected to beg a grant from the MS society or similar and are then expected to keep that bus for 6 years. When you hand it back they fine you for excessive wear or damage inside and out. (Remembering you have been shoving a wheel chair and all the foot plates in and out for 6 years). If your needs change and you need a hoist or a different car in the lease you need to beg a grant. I choose to buy our own car.

No wonder we take a little sollice that we pay no tolls or road tax.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Or it could have caused you to only need one more journey - lying down in a nice comfy box. You really shouldn't wish for that sort of thing.

My father in law has a motability car, after serving his whole working life as a fireman he now cannot walk very far without assistance. Would I exchange my costly vehicle for his disability? No, not a chance.

Anton, thanks for sharing those indicative costs - I must admit I had no idea they could be so high. My father in law can't afford to top up the price of his car so goes for the basic models, he's currently got a Corsa 1.2 I think. The verso would probably have been a good car for him, but as you mention, they've stopped making it. Something like the Berlingo or Fiat Doblo could be on the cards when he comes to replace it in a couple of years time.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Bet you both just love speedbumps!

I don't think vehicle tax is a "Persecution of those with physical problems" I think it is a persecution of everyone. Who was that guy who was saying he would have to pay £210 on a 1600? That's a small engine, they make motorbikes with bigger engines than that! What is all the fuss, because they have included cars that were from 2001 as well? This is getting crazy, even in Europe it has always been considered that it is a displacement more than 3 litres which is "big" but even back then it was still on the conservative side as more than 3 litres isn't particulally "big". Go to America if you want to see big engines, those are properly big, as in 7 litres big I would be surprised if this government stayed in, and even then it would be probably because they would change their policies for people to vote for them though. The thing is though, who would be better? They are all after the same thing-money, power. I guess the problem with the current government is because they try to hide behind this green fasarde. If we are to believe the global boring idea then they say themselves that cars only account for 13% of the emissions which is probably more anyhow since they prefer to make things up.

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Currently undergoing training with the I.A.M.

You are dead right there Johnnytheboy - no matter how slowly they are negotiated, invariably they do cause discomfort to the people in the vehicles - I should imagine that the generation of newer drivers will probably end up with many unexplained back problems in the future. Wonder how long it will take to possibly associate the problems with speed bumps and the general disrepair of our roads!

Flynn - you are right, it is persecution of everyone, however I was trying to make the point that a lot of people drive bigger cars for reasons other than having a big car!

It is utterly ridiculous that this government should even think it can get away with something like this, reneging on all the promises previously made. I can't see them getting back in next time as I think if not already, then by the time they have a general election, people will have realised that they cannot trust anything this lot say. I also agree that the other 2 major parties are not really an option as they will do exactly the same as Nu Labour. We know this has been going on for years and the more we have let them get away with ripping us off the more blatant they have become and ultimately we have allowed the government, who are supposed to be 'our servants' rip us off left, right and centre.

My own view is that assuming there is no 'None of the Above' option to tick on the form, then the only other way to really shake these thieving morons out of their complacency is to vote for anyone except the big 3! Currently my leaning is towards UKIP, but that is just my opinion, for now!

People have been saying, with regard to the fuel prices, that ours should come down in line with Europe, but what they have left out is that in Spain, for example, their fuel prices are considerably less than ours but theirs also include their equivalent of our Road Tax! At least with it paid for through the fuel, no-one can escape paying but what they pay would be in proportion to how much they use the roads! That, however, is another argument!