Safe Speed Forums

I know, it is a bit of a no-brainer.



If 66% of motorists are MLMs then it can't be that many.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

Personally I don’t however, you still haven’t answered my question.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Dixie,

Personally, I don't.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

You seem to have missed the rest of my post. And there was me thinking you wanted a serious discussion, and not just to make cheap gags.

Anyone would think you were just trolling.

ah... i've got it

everyone else beleives the MLM in the first post to be cooler himself.
cooler beleives the MLM was the guy behind.

You have indeed got it, Ed. Odd you should post just now - see below!

So, Cooler, I really don't know what you're trying to do, or prove, here.

You started this thread and gave it the title "Middle Lane Hoggers". Now, this term is generally understood as applying to people who bimble along in L2 oblivious to what is going on around them, and cause unnecessary congestion by clinging for dear life to L2, despite the fact that there is enough space for them to be in L1 (such people never venture into L3).

The scenario you gave in the OP was immediately, and quite correctly, answered by ed_m who said:



You’ve since changed horses several times, and we’re now on to “bullying” behaviour. If this was what you wanted to discuss, why didn’t you make it clear in the first place? Or later, when people had gone off on the wrong scent?

It seems to me, from my reading of this increasingly Ouroboros*-like thread, that your “nutter” in the bronze Merc was indeed a nutter - but did your behaviour unnecessarily provoke him? Agreed, there was no earthly reason why the tosser should not simply have moved into L3 to overtake you (after all, if he wishes to break the speed limit to do so then that’s his own affair, given that L3 was clear), but if there was room for you to be in L1 there is equally no earthly reason why you should not have been there.

* A mythical dragon, depicted as eating its own tail

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

Johnny,

If L3 is not clear for overtaking it would be disingenuous IMHO for car B to block car A. However, I would expect that car A would usually need to slow down going into a gap in L1 unless the gap is large. A polite gesture, such as someone slowing to move into L1, would be welcome on today's busy roads though.

As car A progresses in this fashion along L2, he/she may not encounter such polite gestures from all drivers, but it must be nice when it happens.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

Ed,

I was waiting for someone to make this rather obvious discovery. The MLM is not always the driver in front.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

Yokel,

We are making progress. It is not up to the car behind to make lane judgments for the car in front. Each driver makes their own decision as to the room in L1 and the amount of inconvenience involved in getting out of a MLM's way by going into a L1 gap.

Neither driver 'owns' L2, not the car in front nor the car behind.

C.

BTW - nice mythological reference. I was thinking of the Myth of Sysiphus myself.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

You sound like a schoolteacher with a particularly retarded class. Cheers.



Agreed - but equally it is not up to the car in front to make lane judgements for the car behind.



Agreed.



Thanks - but if you had made yourself clearer to start with, then the size of the boulder would have been much reduced.


Right - to sum up this bloody interminable thread in terms with which we all (except possibly Cooler) might agree:

1. The driver of the Merc was a pillock.

2. If there was room for Cooler to have been in L1 (and bugger the "inconvenience") then Cooler was a pillock, too.

3. If Cooler was genuinely stuck in L2, then the Merc driver was an utter pillock.

End of story.

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

Yokel,

Sorry about sounding patronising ; it wasn't a take on your username - honest! It just seemed nice to be making a little progress after all these keystrokes, and we are.

I agree with your other comments, with one exception. By remaining appropriately in L2 the car in front is not making lane judgments for the car behind. The car in front is merely occupying a space on the motorway which cannot be occupied by two cars at the same time.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

So in my example, with lorries doing 56mph at 500 yard intervals, are you saying a car would have to slow down from 70 as it moved over from L2? Why?



Ummm... given that there are about 30 million (educated guess?) licence holders in the UK, it could be up to 10 million.

Johnny,

I can't say for sure but I'll do the experiment next time I'm out driving. It should be possible to find something like your criteria on the motorways hereabouts.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

That's fine, so long as the car is indeed appropriately remaining in L2. This does not include cars staying in L2 because the driver is too switched-off, incompetent or timid to change lanes, or because he considers it "inconvenient" to do so; nor because he has taken it upon himself to regulate the speed of other vehicles sharing the motorway.

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

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Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

You are assuming an mlm does not revile other mlms, the chances are many mlms complain about mlms without realising they are exhibiting the same behaviour themselves.

I am pretty certain that drivers who either through ignorance or deliberate action box in vehicles to their left contribute to the problem. There will, I think, also be a significant intersection between these drivers and the set of mlms.

I tend to drive as if the vehicles in front have right of way whatever lane they are in. This may not be by the rules but I have found using this mindset minimises near misses from lane changes. Not that this means they have the right to deliberately hold up vehicles behind.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Kill me, kill me now.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Yokel,

In my posts I have never suggested that a driver should stay in L2 because of timidity, incompetence or being switched off. I think you will find it is others who have made these hypothetical assumptions.

Regarding inconvenience. Which is more inconvenient?

1. A driver in L2 having to slow down to fit into a gap in L1 because of aggro from a MLM behind.

2. A driver wishing to overtake a vehicle travelling at the legal limit in L2 pulling out in to the clear L3 to overtake.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

toltec,

Absolutely spot on!!

I can't remember the last time I hassled someone out of my way on any road, but there have been plenty of occasions when I have slowed down in L2 to allow someone out of a box in L1 (provided that I don't have someone behind me). Also, and this may be wrong, I have slowed down in L1 when someone is having difficulty getting out of a feeder lane into L1.

C.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

Just to make this clear, when I said



I am talking about vehicles in front doing last second lane changes into the lane I am in which cause me to brake. When I change lane to get out of the way of a faster vehicle approaching from behind I do so in a smooth and predictable manner, near misses are not a usually feature of my lane changes.

When I see a vehicle catching up I will also accelerate somewhat if that means I can time pulling over to the left into a gap with when the vehicle catches me up. This has the advantage that I can slow as I pull to the left increasing the available time in the gap while maximising the speed differential to the overtaking vehicle and minimising the time it spends along side my car. This assumes I am in the outside lane or that the catching vehicle cannot move right as it is also being overtaken. There is no hopping or lunging involved just smooth fast progress.

VC may have asked why I do this when it is no advantage to me, the answer is simple, only the narrow minded can see no advantage. What I see as advantages are the minimising of potential hazards, giving me enough 'work' to do to make sure I stay alert and getting at least a little enjoyment out of driving on a motorway.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May