Safe Speed Forums

What? Where did I mention anything about speed?

As a taxidriver, I am more willing and able to change lanes than some people may want to think is safely possible. By almost constantly (every two seconds or less) checking a mirror, I am almost constantly prepared to go from any lane to any lane - and occasionally, I find it either necessary of simply very advantageous to [be able to] make a double (several times an hour), triple (several times a day), or even a quadruple (once or twice a day) lane change. I was trained and continue to train this, as well as other abilities that I frankly don't have to use as a taxidriver or a civilian, but it not only makes for more enjoyable driving, but also for better takehome pay than most of my coworkers.

It may very well take someone who has been staring ahead for a mile or more anywhere from four to nine seconds to change lanes, if it includes looking in both mirrors, checking blindspots, and THEN physically changing lanes.

The majority of the driving public (those who do not drive for a living) has been 'hypnopaedically taught' that, in and of itself, lane changing is dangerous. I can tell you from experience that the steering wheel has saved my life almost as often as the brake pedal, but most people would [want to] fail to understand how this is possible.
I think it's safe to guess that the majority of MLMs share this sentiment to varying degrees.

Such people probably overlap substantially with the group of people who were not actively taught to check a mirror every two to four seconds (those who drive for a living, or whose living always requires several hours of driving daily). An ability never taught never develops, and unused abilities atrophy.
This also helps to set the stage for an ever growing population that would need the concept of maintaining Situational Awareness to:
a) be explained to them very slowly
b) find it requires too much effort - nevermind that that effort could be preventing someone from shaving, texting / phoning, dressing, reading, etc. (America probably has many more multitask-drivers than most of Europe. Blame automatic transmissions)

Many of these people probably also have a low threshold for rapid changes in information.
I.E. When I 1st met my ex, she would drive at 10 to 15 MpH above the posted 'limit' ONLY IFF she could be behind another car, otherwise she'd drive at about 5MpH above the posted 'limit'. She'd occasionally fail to notice the driver ahead speeding up, and if she didn't look at her speedo, she'd actually shrink the gap between them as their speed increased.
It took me months to figure out that the car in front of her basically gave her the sensation that she was going slower than she actually was. That's why she'd close the gap if the 'rabbit' sped up.
It could also explain how one could inadvertently train oneself to avoid developing peripheral awareness.

There is also a general consensus that the person who strikes during a lane change is guilty of causing a collision, unless and until proven innocent.

Someone who:

a) is normally reluctant to change lanes
b) won't check their mirrors unless they are preparing to change lanes
c) prefer to drive as part of a train
d) sees staying in the same lane as a sound 'legal' defense against being blamed for causing an accident

is most likely an MLM.

Sound plausible?

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

If I've got this right, this should be the "applause" little picture.



oh bother. Picture if you will a little circle man clapping in agreement. If a Mod can fix this for me, please do!

(now done - it's "clap1", not "applause")

I agree with the whole of the rush's sentiment - observation and anticipation aren't just for those "pre manoeuvre" moments, they are part of the driving activity.

IMvHO anyway.

_________________
COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

See, though, that's us. It would pain me to do so, but I see how I could move one lane away (left here) from the highway entry / exit lane, set the cruise control at 55MpH (NY state speed limit), and start making a bunch of 'important' phonecalls and taking 'important' notes.
Set my alarm to go off when I should be arriving at my exit, prepare to change lanes / disembark the highway ...

One who has done this for more than a few years without an accident probably sees themselves as very good driver. Even a decent hypermiler, however, knows better.
(Ten minutes in Manhattan, 2PM or later, once they've withdrawn from their antipsychotics / antidepressants ... watch them crack like a plumber's rump.)

I remind you all that higher driver education and licensing standards (when I say 'higher', I mean a greater quantitiy and quality of superior 'social driving' skills which would lead to a lower yearly rate of newly licensed drivers out on the road) may seem far more socially profitable to us in the long term, but it surely appears far less fiscally profitable, at least in the short term, to those who would turn the majority of the driving citizenry into 'habitual code violators'.

This will also tend to breed an increasing populace that would vehemently prefer to drive 'one lane at a time'.

(Handy, try the 'word' "clap" or "clap1".)

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Handy and Rush,

Yes, I agree with this. Driving is an organic activity, not something we do in fits and starts. On the motorway we need to be aware all the time, and using the mirrors, so that we can anticipate and avoid lane hoppers, tailgaters and other dangers.

C.

I had exctly this situation last night.

Driving along the m4 in south wales. Its quiet and i'm making 'swift' progress in L1 up ahead I see text book Middle lane driver.....sub 70 mph nothing inside him as far as the eye could see. in L3 there's a car overtaking probably 75/80 ish.

I'm closing on them in L1, i have three options

1: slow right down and join the queue to overtake in L3

2: slow down and sit in L1 or L2

3: continue at my current speed in L1 and leave them to it in my mirrors.

I'm not telling you which option I took.

My point is that on a three lane motorway what I should have been able to do was....Mirror, signal move into L2 the mirror, signal move into L3 and proceed with the overtake without resorting to braking or an illegal left hand overtake.

The correct course of action was not open to me because of wanton bad driving on the part of MLM.

whats a lane-hopper ?

is this someone who keeps moving into L1 for no apparent reason and then has the audacity to use L2 to overtake slower vehicles ?

Hold on, it was my sentiment first!

I'm not a professional driver (per se) but my job does require a head on a swivel for lookout, and constant, exemplary SA. I don't think I'd feel comfortable if I wasn't constantly aware of the all-round traffic situation at any point whilst driving.

This is the sensation we need to impart to all drivers, I feel; that of discomfort if SA starts to break down, which would instinctively prompt a mirror check or turn of the head (mirrors are only there to assist lookout, they don't replace actually pointing one's eyes at something where possible!).

ed,

Haha, you dead right there. If people like hopping into the s*** lane they could at least have the generosity to stay in there. It's a nightmare for us L2 drivers having to deal with all this indecision.

C.

I'm with ed on this....what is a lane hopper?

I'm picking up all this new vernacular....lane hopper, slug trap etc etc...its like a different world.

L2 and L3 are 'overtaking lanes' it would be difficult to overtake without...hopping between lanes.

I'd like to describe how i see driving on the motorway.

Imagine there is a strong piece of elastic tied to your passenger door and the H/S rumble strip. This elastic is at rest when your car is centrally within L1. Each time you move right...L2 or L3 there is tension in the elastic that tends to pull you back to L1......does that make sense? it best describes how I drive on motorway.

CE,

The simplest and safest way is to make the overtaking manoevres smoother by making them longer.

C.

I don't think this blanket statement fits, tbh. Smooth, yes, you should never jerk the vehicle around, because that risks a loss of control, but longer, not at all. The manoeuvre should be completed with appropriate expediency, whilst remaining safe and unhurried, but avoiding delay. You don't exactly want to be dragging the arse out of a lane change if you're trying to integrate with faster traffic in the destination lane.

Robin,

If you are coming up in L1 to a truck and pull out into L2 for an overtake, you might see a few more slow moving vehicles spread out further ahead along L1.

A driver might either,

1. Overtake them one at a time, hopping in and out between L1 and L2.

2. Speed up a little, maybe to the NSL and overtake all of them in a longer but more stable manoevre.

IMHO option 2. is much more considerate to other road users and safer, as it involves less hopping about between lanes. It is also better for the slower moving vehicles in L1, as they don't have a lane hopper coming in and out between them.

C.

It would seem to me that you have invented this 'lane hopper' phenomenon as some sort of intellectual counterpart to the lane hog. The reason I say this is because I seldom, if ever, experience drivers 'hopping' in and out of L1 as you describe. Most will choose to remain in L2 in order to pass a succession of slower moving vehicles in the way you describe.
The problem is, many lack the discretion to be able to tell when it is proper for them to return to L1.

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

I'm recognising pattern

Those who find lane correct lane discipline difficult are also those who simply will not exceed the posted limit.

Is a rigidly enforced and obeyed speed limit, set at 70mph incompatible with correct motorway driving?

look at it this way, if L1 is moving at 70 (or a de facto 56 when HGV's are around) then How can you execute an overtaking manouvre ad be legal. In reality apart from the odd individual nobody drives at less than 60mph so that leaves only 10mph for the two overtaking lanes to operate.

This also plays into the hands of the 'i'm doing 70 so why should i pull over' brigade.

Do motorways need a healthy speed differential in order to work effectively and efficiently? I would argue that the limit should be no less than 90 mph for this purpose.

Yes it was.

If your job requires that you drive a lot - say, traveling salesperson, for example - and that has caused you to develop constant SA, then we are all safer.

The pity is that the development and maintenance of SA isn't a prerequisite for a driver's license.

Not if the lower speeds are lowered further.

When traveling from Queens to Long Island on the Grand Central Parkway [which renames itself Northern State Parkway once in LI], those from Queens have some difficulty adjusting to the higher cruising speeds that LongIslanders are accustomed to. (Despite a NY state speed 'limit' of 55MpH, LI Troopers will almost never pull anyone over - on a highway - unless they are going over 75 MpH, while 60MpH is enough to get you pulled over in Queens, where the speed 'limit' is 50MpH. Go figure ...)
Since Queens drivers also tend to lack merging and lane changing finesse, they often find scores of LI drivers driving around them at anywhere from 65 to 80 MPH, alternately over- and undertaking, while they themselves need as much as five or more miles to raise their cruise control from 50 to 60 MpH.
Luckily, four lanes leaves the ramp exchange lane free for a completely different type of shenanigans.

The deeper one finds oneself in Long Island, however, the more uniform traffic becomes. By the time you get to Suffolk County, the slowest people are doing 65. If they are not in the leftmost / passing lane or the rightmost / ramp exchange lane, lucky for every one.

A healthy speed differential requires sufficient space between vehicles, which means that there can only be so many people on the road.

The more overpopulated a given road is or has locally become - clusters - the more difficult it is to allow a healthy speed differential.

Unfortunately, the most efficient way for a road to operate is for all road users to be driving at the same speed - the faster, the more efficient, of course - at tolerances that would be far too tight for anyone (except maybe stunt drivers).

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

The lower speeds don't drop though, not in my experience, all thats happening is that the top of the speed curve is being sliced off.

Folks,

I tried an experiment on the M4 coming back from Cardiff yesterday. We drove in L1 at approx 50mph, keeping our distance from a lorry in front. We kept the lorry in sight but as far back from it as possible, while still seeing it clearly on the bends (it was raining). We did this for about 6 miles.

I don't know precisely how long the gap was between our car and the lorry, but it was a good long gap. As we drove I noted the number of cars which overtook us in L2 and L3 and then pulled back into L1 in front of us.

The number of cars that did this in our 6 mile test?

None. Not one car. However, L2 and L3 were well occupied with fast moving traffic, despite the poor driving conditions.

My case rests.

C.

Cooler, what is that case? Are we back to 'MLMs are acceptable because lots of people do it'? Do I need to remind you of what would happen if lots of people chose to take flight from a large vertical piece of the landscape?

A lot of what you've described in your last couple of posts is not MLMing; the distance between vehicles before pulling back in is flexible, and highly dependant on driving conditions. It is more important to have good lane discipline when the road is busy, to avoid creating jams though the de facto reduction of the motorway by a lane, whereas if there's noone behind you, you may choose not to pull in between vehicles a decent distance apart.

Next time you're driving, try to differentiate between times when you're cruising and times when you're overtaking. Let that feeling be your guide.

Robin,

My point is that the distance between me and the lorry was so far apart that I could only just see it. It was at the edge of my viewing distance. If this was the case for me, then it would also be the case for the drivers overtaking me. So, why didn't any of them pull into L1?

Also, L2 and L3 were busy, so it would seem sensible that drivers would pull into such a large gap to make room for vehicles behind. But they didn't.

This is a serious issue. If the rule is to keep left except when overtaking on a motorway, then why did every driver that I observed flaunt the rule?

C.