Safe Speed Forums

So if you were in L2 and someone else was 'boxed in in the slug lane', but indicating right and clearly wanting to change lanes, you would ignore them? If you saw a potential accident unfolding ahead and by moving over a lane you could allow someone ELSE to avoid an accident, you wouldn't act?

I would rather see EVERYONE arrive at their destination safely. People make mistakes, but we can ALL make the roads safer my making allowances for each other.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

toltec,

Are you suggesting that there are L2 drivers who will slow down a little and politely wave out a L1 driver who is indicating get out of a box?

I have never seen that happen.

C.

You've obviously never been on a motorway with me then.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Sixy,

I'll keep an eye out for you. I'm always careful to spot bikers and make safe space for them.

C.

Ah, I don't do so many motorway miles on the bike, but from a purely defensive POV, its safer for me to back off from someone trying to make a lane change in case they haven't seen me.

It's nice to know you're looking out for us though.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Sixy,

I ride a Kawasaki 550 myself, and don't use it much on motorways. The bike is more fun on the country roads.

Re defensive driving, biking really opens your eyes. There are few second chances on a bike, and I genuinely believe that many motorists just don't see bikes. It's safest to presume that everyone hasn't seen you and give them space to do whatever.

C.

Or me.

Or any number of other drivers I have seen do it, some of whom have let me out from L1.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I was taught to ride as if everyone else on the road is trying to kill you. Works for me!

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

That would indicate that “civil engineer” hasn’t enumerated all the possibilities of how people get stuck in the slug lane. You can get stuck there because you are a “bad” driver, or because someone else is a “bad” driver. Like I said, we have no control over others, so, even for “good” drivers, the best thing is not to take the risk, unless there is apparent upside.



That is judgemental. It is not a matter of “guilt” or “innocence” etc. It is a matter of behaviour, and it serves no purpose to grumble about how “bad” they all are from your point of view, as you may be far from perfect yourself, as far as we know.



Perhaps blokes stuck in the slug lane feel like loosers, and blokes don’t like that much? That is the cause of the behaviour; there is no mystery, nor cause for complaint – it is human nature with this system.

What amazes me is that your definition of minimising lunge and lurch extends to driving in the middle lane pretty much all the time, as far as I can tell.

A good driver can change lane without either lunging or lurching.

Johnny,

Of course they can. All they have to do is approach a driver who is cruising at the NSL in the middle lane, check the mirror, indicate, and overtake using L3.

Of course this will involve breaking the NSL, which I wouldn't do, but another good driver could do it.

C.

Thanks, those are really good questions. I’m from an old line of English Catholics, and that creed basically requires me to respect all people equally and to be altruistic – I’ll get my reward for being so good, once I get to heaven. Everybody gets the same treatment from me, from the Queen through to the janitor. If I spotted someone in the slug trap, trying to get out, I’d give them time. But then, I was trained at Grammar School to think that way.

On that I can agree with you.

More importantly I know this is so and still work to be so even though the goal can only be approached not reached.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Good choice of bike. I too rarely see people slowing to allow the slug-trapped to escape. Most people are more like "civil engineer". They think "you're stupid enough to get into that mess, don't ask me to help you out."

Could the mods make it a condition of Valle's re admittance that the term 'slug trap' is NEVER used again.

I've never heared such complete rubbish and i fear I may end up with a suspension.

I think I've simply missed the point of this whole thread. Driing in L2, L3 when the inner lane is clear or you are not making discernable progress in overtaking vehicles on inner lanes is just wrong, causes congestion and frustration.

If you can't understand it or drive in the correct manner then you simply should not be allowed on the roads.

I'm not sure if Cooler is actually defending what I recognise as middle lane driving or not.

Calming happy thoughts *Ummmmmmmmmmmm*.

TBH I agree with your observation re Cooler - I don't think he's talking about middle lane hogging either, just using the correct lane for the particular traffic conditions.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Me too.



What I am saying is that if a vehicle is travelling at 70mph in L2 and L3 is clear, then it is easy for a driver coming from behind to move into L3 and overtake.

If, at this time, it is incovenient for the driver in L2 to drop into the s*** lane, then it is impolite for the driver behind to flash lights and make obscene gestures. This is bullying. There is no reason why a driver travelling at 70mph in L2 should have to slow down and get into line with the lorries because of a road hog.

If, at this time, L1 is also completely clear, then it is unreasonable for the driver in L2 to hog that lane, but this does not excuse the behaviour of the driver behind, which could be dangerous and even cause an accident (both hands off the wheel?)

In the original examples I gave, L3 was clear. I do accept that in the example of a completely empty night motorway, excepting myself and a BMW which came up behind me at astonishing speed, I would have been wiser to be in L1. If the driver had politely indicated that he was behind me (a single flash of the lights) I would have pulled over. But he didn't, he overtook me, pulled into L2 and braked hard. Both cars slowed to a crawling pace on the motorway in L2 and I prepared myself for hand to hand combat. I don't have to tell you that vehicles travelling at a crawling pace on a night motorway in L2 pose a risk to life and limb.

I am advocating polite driving and assessing the road conditions. This includes allowing drivers to cruise at the NSL in L2 if the s*** lane is interspersed with lorries, Nissan Micras and caravans.

The issue we seem to have been debating here is about what constitutes a density of traffic interspersal in L1 which would allow a L2 driver to remain in L2 as a technically very long overtaking manoeuvre.

C.

still going huh ?

did a reasonable trip from brum down to millbrook and back to cov today. M42, M6, M1, M1, M45...a broad range of Mways & conditions I think although no very heavy traffic persay.

spent plenty of time going into & out of L1, sometimes keeping pace with one or two other vehicles doing likewise.
also had several instances of the car closing in L2 anticipating me needing to pull out of L1 and either not dawdling alongside or moving to L3 to let me out.
and a few instances of vice versa.

e.

Ed,

Good to hear that you had a trip free from obscene gesturing. It's always nice, that.

C.

I don't think I have ever seen a car in lane 2 ignore an indicator from lane 1, if they've had an option. Most often they switch into lane 3 if the rate of closure is more than slight, and if there is room, but slowing is also common, dependant on the situation.

Its important as a driver to have good SA (situational awareness) at all times. I think those who cannot understand how keeping left can work so effectively must be 'zoning out' in their lane, focussing only on the roadspace directly ahead of them, and only starting to build SA when they first perceive the need to change lanes, rather than 'having an all-round picture' in their minds in case they need to change lanes.