Safe Speed Forums

Or a head of wood.

Sorry wasn't there so possible you were OK, it just seems slightly unlikely.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Will do – like I said, let’s agree on genetic mutation and leave it at that. Thanks.

Now, what else were we prattling on about, before this became disagreeable. Of yes, slug lanes versus bastard lanes. Those names are my private ones, and I don’t propose that they should replace the standard “slow, middle and fast” lane nomenclature, although they are far better than the meaningless labels (L1, L2 and L3) proposed by the PC brigade. In short, as long as we classify the lanes according to their relative speeds, we must use names for the lanes, not labels. It is pointless to call the fast lane L3, because, as Cooler says, L3 would then mean “the fast lane” … no point in that at all. So let’s be British about this and call the lanes what our fathers did. No use having change for the sake of change, eh?

Actually the differential speed at times was considerably higher than 30mph.

I'm not going to put figures here because I am aware that there are serving police officers read these forums. (And if they are reading these forums then this is all hearsay and conjecture.)

In reference to another thread I could also say that my previous girlfriend was aged 15 years and 9 months. But I won't.

(And you're right, I do have balls of steel!)

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Don't bring him into it. Toltec and I have finally agreed that "genetic mutation" is behind the reason the monkeys came down from the trees.

Squirrel, you have raised something of importance, and further evidence that we are on the right track. Generally, when we name a thing, we name it after the thing that it is. That seems obvious, yet here we are discussing whether we should use the “fast lane” to mean the lane in which traffic is supposed to go faster.

Now you have raised an important point. What if you don’t use the thing in the way the name intends? In your case, you are an undertaker - well actually, that’s where you will wind up if you carry on like that. We call the undertaker an “undertaker” because either he “takes you under”, or he “under takes” to “take you under” or he is a real under taker, like you, who undertakes instead of overtakes, yet is a person who digs you up an overtaker, or an undertaker, or something else?

Well, we’ll have to leave that for another day. Generally though, the men’s bogs is called the “Gentlemens’ toilets” not because all men are gentlemen, but because they are men, i.e. the naming of things is only an approximate thing. And the bastards lane is supposed to be (approximately, on the average, in the round) faster than the slug lane, even if, sometimes, it isn’t. That’s just how it goes, I’m afraid.

Did not notice that

Apart from the wrangling I was trying to make the point that any solution to MLMs needs to take into account human nature. Personally I do not like travelling in close proximity to other vehicles moving at the same speed, I may be atypical in that though. I have certainly noticed some drivers that seem to prefer following another vehicle rather than maintaining their own space and speed.

Can we try a slightly different question but on the mlm theme?

You are following a vehicle that is moving slower than you wish to, there is a vehicle behind you that also appears to want to travel at a higher speed. There is space on the left to pull over however the vehicle in front is not using it.

Would you pull over to the left?

Is the car in front an mlm if he is also being held back by a preceding vehicle?


Me?

Depends how close to the vehicle in the left lane we were, at a decent distance the answer is probably yes if only to give me an increased gap, I can pull back over as we catch the the vehicle in the left lane. If there is a big gap with a stream of cars trying to pass a slow vehicle then almost always yes, the chances are the full lane will keep slowing and speeding up and I will just use the left lane but not bother slowing so I get to do a legal (afaik) undertake. If this is done at a low speed differential most of the time it is no problem 'pushing' back out into the right lane.

I would not think of the car in front as an mlm, in fact if it means I can use the left lane and have a bigger gap or slide past a few cars he is doing me a favour. If they do pull over I would not try to pass unless I could do so without boxing them in, if I cannot pass we both get a bigger braking gap.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I'll have a go at that. Let’s say it’s an unrelated person called “Mr
Tintern”. If Tintern pulled over, he might get trapped in the inside lane.
So, following the game theory to maximize his gains, and minimize his
chances of losses, that's not an option. Only if there was no chance of
getting trapped does it make sense to move over. The bloke behind him
will have to wait 'til there is near zero chance of Tintern getting trapped,
then he might move over, although, in your example, it is not apparent
to me what Mr Tintern would get in return.

Given that, even if the chance was near zero, Tintern would get nothing in
return, why would he bother changing lanes, when he knows that lane
changing is more risky than just sticking? Hm... Tintern would be logical if
he said “screw the guy behind, that's what the fast lane is for”, wouldn’t
he?

That is where greed leads us. Altruism, on the other hand, would give
better results overall, as you will know from Dawkins. Yet how do
you get that behavior in a dog-eat-dog world?

Quite.

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Valle,

I've just become aware of my own selfishness.

C.

ooooh. good one .. and quite frequent too on some of the DC i use where obviously L3 isn't an option.

generally yes.. i pull over and try to maintain a good gap to the car ahead in L2 so they can pull in if they want to.
although i'm often aware that my very presence in L1 makes them even less likely to pull in.

my logic is similarly to get a bigger gap in front, and usually to let someone else bully them out the way, so i can go around them once they're in L1.

if L2 is busy and slowing/speeding up i try to avoid undertaking by lifting off but i usually draw the line at braking in sympathy with them just cos they cant keep a sensible gap to the car in front.

I used to do that however if it is safe to do so I will just continue at the same speed, in some situations I have passed more than a dozen cars like this before indicating and pulling back the right lane to pass. I have generally found that most drivers will let you in without complaint if the speed differential is low and particularly if they have had to slow because of a braking wave. It is particularly effective on two lane road sections like the A1 and M11/A14 have.

It does not work in all situations but it is a lovely way to use that half mile or so of empty tarmac behind a truck that everyone is trying to get past.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Good point. The "body language" of the car behind can be a big factor. If stuck behind a MLM then someone comes steaming up behind, practically mounting the back of my car then I'll make a big effort to make room for him to pass. Partly to avoid being tailgated, but mainly because I know he'll hassle the guy in front far more aggressively than I ever would, so I can sit behind at a safe distance until he barges him out of the way, then follow through.

Is this parasitic driving???

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

................................

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

Except you don't know how old I am. For all you know I could be 17 and only had my license a few months. Although I probably wouldn't be driving a 170bhp Audi (group 15) if I was.

As it happens - I'm 30 and my last gf was 23. My comment was simply making a point. Why is it that 71mph on a motorway is "dangerous" and "irresponsible" when 70mph is "completely safe"? If you try and make anything an absolute when there are grey areas then you destroy all respect for the law.

Which is why more "speeding" drivers than ever are being caught - and teenage pregnancies are also on the rise.

And since you've brought it down to penis size - in the words of the b3ta forums "8 inches and plenty of girth". Not compensating for anything!

Now get back in the left hand lane, there's a good chap.

_________________
Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Watch the ad hominem.

Perhaps the blood from your brain has collected down there, eh?

I wasn't having a go at you for breaking the speed limit. I was having a go at you for driving like a dickhead. Undertaking will end you up in the undertakers. Unfortunately it's drivers driving in the way you brag about you that take others with them. It won't be long before you're at the centre of something like this. Are you sure you want me to put 44 tonnes on your bonnet? It won't be deliberate but if you think I'll see you with that speed differential and you start off behind me then just toss a coin for your survival chances.

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

This slanging match it quite distasteful. Do cut it out. Now, please.

Folks,

I have noticed that long running threads often end up with a couple of people slamming each other in this way.

But, what have we learned about middle lane hoggers in this discussion? Well I have learned that there is a big disparity between the received wisdom as per the Highway Code and the way that people generally drive on motorways.

I don't think I feel any better about bully drivers, but maybe talking about this stuff will help me on the roads. Maybe the next time a car comes up my rear with 'all guns blazing' I will politely move aside and keep my hackles down. Hope so.

C.

If the people you are passing are so inept as not to move over when they could, what makes you think they'd be sufficiently on the ball the check their mirrors when eventually they decide to move over? What you're doing sounds pretty dangerous. I'll be looking out for your post in here.