Safe Speed Forums

You can't be be charged with driving urgently

Accelerating hard is not illegal is it ?? (although I agree the volume so caused may be antisocial)

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert

Western Australia's 'Hooning Laws'. Coming soon to a Britain near you...

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

In fact you CAN hear someone speeding - Doppler shift is one way, or perfect pitch and knowledge of final drive ratio and which gear another. The doppler shift method requires neither perfect pitch (just an approximation will do) nor knowledge of gears.

I can elucidate if required.

OK Nerd head on

Radial velocity = speed of sound x (frequency emiited - frequency recieved) / emitted frequency

transverse velocity = distance x sin (angular veolocity*)

velocity = Square root (( transverse velocity x transverse velocity)+(radial velocity x radial velocity))

*angular velocity is measured using a mk1 eyeball and stopwatch

and if you are moving the maths gets even worse

If the engine revs change the frequency will change and so throw out the calculations.
If road changes direction the frequency will change and so throw out the calculations.

IF you cannot see the vehicle - from the sound alone you can only someone is travelling at speed not what speed they are doing.

p.s. GATSOs do use doppler radar but with specified distances ,angles , heights & frequencies

p.p.s yes I should get out more !!

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert

But If you hear someone accelerating "Hard" (which is a diferent sound than simply holding a low gear for longer than normal) for more than a few seconds then they are "Highly likly" to be traveling a good bit faster than might be considererd appropriate for a residential area.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I've got £500 that says you cannot accurately predict my speed using your eyes, and your eyes only.....wanna take that bet?
In fact, forget accuracy.....I reckon you'd be at least 15mph out on every pass I make.


Gang??
All members of a club are they?


Your friend does not hear the engine at all, he hears the sound of the exhaust...and if they happen to be running competition pipes then it's going to make the vehicle sound like it's travelling a lot faster than what it really is.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

That depends on the bike though - it's much easier to stick in one, lower, gear than have to constantly change up and down to keep the power there. Some of the sports bikes have such a tall 1st gear that you CAN'T get into 2nd much below 30mph...

Gixxer. Of course, they wouldn't have comp. pipes for road use, would they? EVERYONE has nice, quiet, legal exhausts!

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Nice to come back and comment on a bike post

My bike, when it's on the road , will do 80mph in first gear and will make your ears bleed. A 125 two stroke will do 20mph and will sound just the same.

Anyone who lives within 50 yards of a road will hear any motorbike pass by.

I've known people with Subaru Imprezas that I can hear coming a mile away. As there are two dual carriageways near me I cannot tell if they are speeding on the residential road or if they are on the dual carriageway.

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Prepare to be Judged

The bite is worse than the bark.

The man shouting at you isn't necessarily the biggest danger or threat.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Folks,

This high spirited revving is a natural reaction from free spirited youths. In a seaside town near us there is a plethora of sports bikes and souped up Japanese metal. The place sounds like a racetrack on a saturday night.

I agree that the petrol heads have learned how to avoid speed cameras and the police, and often keep their top speeds down along the sea front. It is all in the break from the red lights and burning rubber on the back wheels.

I'll bet it's old timers like me that get caught on speed cameras, not the dedicated drag strip racers.

C.

But back to the topic, which I believe was attitudes towards destruction of theft cameras.

I guess the bottom line is that most of us are privately all for it. However, I think we all realise that for Safe Speed or the ABD to even think of condoning this type of behavoir would be suicidal for the organisations credibility.

Maybe it's the "British" way of doing things in the "proper" manner and not "taking the law into our own hands" attitudes that we are brought up with.

Compare and contrast with tales of theft cameras in parts of Italy that were abandoned at the installation stage due to locals pelting the workmen with rotten fruit!

Yes, on a personal level, these images of wrecked theft cams make my day, and I only wish I had the guts to torch some myself.

But on a public level, I refer the honorable ladies and gentlemen to the second post of this topic. Sadly.

So it's interesting that this board includes emoticons showing the destruction of these cameras.

Haha! Now rotten fruit I like.

C.

What you mean is.... "anyone living within 50 yards of a road will hear everyone of those anti social tossers with noisy pipes on"

I don't have double glazing and live on a high street. There is a guy around here the a perfectly legal SV650, he rides like he wants people to like him. Only when I am in my garden can I hear him, and its a muted "duff, duff, duff". My brother came down 2 weeks ago, I only heard the smooth CBF1000 as he manovered up my drive around my car. Nice.

A Ducati with noisy pipes does sound great, but most people would prefer to hear the birds singing, me included.

A few years ago we had a bunt out Gatso near where I live, everytime I drove passed it I smiled, the undertrodden strike back at last.

So do I condone law breaking?

In 99.9% of times no, I (speeding excepted!) live within the law and indeed as a shooter I can not afford to have a criminal record but the sight of a burnt out Gatso JUSTICE

Thats what this policy of cameras has done to me, question the law. Is that what this government were trying to achieve?

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Nick

I suspect if some comedian included in his act a symbolic blowing up of a Gatso, the vast majority of the audience would cheer.

People in general (correctly) see these things not as life-saving devices but as instruments of oppression.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

And all I can say is thank goodness for that.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Cooler - Am enjoying a relaxing weekend in the company of those Swiss "hooligans"

Now they have asked me to remind folk that the Wildy cat posted up German and Swiss stats which seem to inidicate that the lower drink drive limit "appeared succcessful" when first introduced - but has perhaps regressed in that they seem to now be recording more accidents above the old tolerance limit than at the lowered one.


Now I do not have any concrete or proven absolute answers for this. Nor do they.

For record - none of us do actually drive after drinking for a while. If we do drive out to a country pub - we have a huge meal anyway The driver will choose one low alcohol or zero alcohol drink and there a number of soft drinks which we all enjoy. Our main GRUMBLY is that these are very much overpriced.

But back to your original post as to why folk are driven to extreme anger..


I think the lack of the human touch. We police, or at least those in Durham and N Yorks and Manchester, do at least explain to the muppet copped why we stopped them and outcome depends on what was actually seen and the best learning curve in the officers' professional judgement. Sometimes we just warn and advise - but it does depend on what they did and the potential danger to selves and others.

This is also "on the spot" and not 14 days out of memory. Thus we hit the learning curve more immediately. Also - folk hate robots really and we are "socially interactive animals" too.

Now the Swiss mob skimming through the thread have asked me to post up. They have scams on their motorways disguised as a workman. The Eurpopeans do know what he is doing as there are no cones or signs of any road works They have scams hidden in wheely bins too.

They have reports of young Swiss kids who take chain saws to these scams or drive past them baring bottoms and mooning at them.

But the one scam which caused a Swiss clergyman to "lose it" BIG TIME .. per Basler Zeitung" in 2003 .. was Snow White and a dwarf.

Snow White appeared on a fast-ish straight outside Luzern. She looked like one little innocent .. only the Swiss say she had an "interesting bosom" - in that "she appeared to show her nipples in the form of a camera lens" They say this angered and offended the prissy Swissy in the priest and she then choked on more than an apple.
The Catholic priest allegedly applied a chain saw to her and no kiss from Prince Charming could revive here

One dwarf got blown up and the other hacked to death with an axe...

Now the Swiss are regarded as "calm cuckoo clock precision" - yet these scams ignite them to sheer white heat fury. (Not talking about the family riff raffish ruddy hooligans") - but about the general public at large. So.. the anger is perhaps directed at the manner of the automated style of enforcement which denies all folk a "say in defences"

Human civilisation, democracy and fair justice system allow a defence. I think this part of the equation even though the offence of speeding deliberately along with most road user offences are more "mens culpa" than "mens rea" But even so.. folk should have their say and any mitigating conditions must be taken into account. Which comment brings us back to some of the serious points raised here against reliance on automation to "solve" a problem



They think it is more extreme anger at automation and no human interasaction/negotiation and no means of proving innocence if really innocent behind this venting of extreme frustrated anger.

Now none of us condone this - but we can understand some of the reason for such anger - especially when there is no change in KSI stats to justify automated prosecution levels. People may be fined and banned for a while - but standards do not get improved - nor do they learn more than absolute aggrieved beligerent frustrations .. which then leads to expressing anger by vandalism. Certainly - does not make things right and makes things a heck of a lot worse for them if copped just as much as the twazak in "help - being done" by his testing out a tall story to avoid the points Not that naive.. I think he was dipping a big toe in water to test heat of reaction

Basically - most folk are fine if copped by police officer and the offence explained to them without condemnation - but with friendly advicce as to how to learn and improve. They are not so fine if a letter appears 14 days later and they cannot recall or have been done for a silly discrepancy neglible on what they thought to be a straight safe road . I think this leads to extreme anger and stirs up latent violence within.

Now let me be clear .. having some understanding of why folk behave as they do .. does not mean condoning. It means we know how to deal with them as fairly and respectfully and humanely as possible. and can perhaps diffuse the anger within and improve attitudes as a result.

But why my original guv who recruited me and his successor to both .. opposed scam pratnerships? Folk manipulate them. Thus they cannot be held to work effectively. The do no educate either or improve any standards. We are first to admit we cannot ever be accident free. but we still deliver stats below national averages which suggests we are doing much right minded here. Our drivers passed the same tests. Our cyclists likewise and we have always been involved in education too.

By the way Cooler .. if I did not post before ./.. You add very much to the debate here. But do not hog those middle lanes and do read up the DSA book/ Road craft/Cycle Craft/Mind Driving and anything by Paul Ripley

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

In Gear,

You are right about this. Most people will put their hands up to a 'fair cop' in a face to face situation with a reasonable pollice officer.

Cameras are bad enough, but there is something even more creepy about some person hiding away inside a camera van peeking through a laser gun.

It's just so sneaky.

C.

PS - Thanks for the welcome.

OI

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now retired