Safe Speed Forums

Does anyone know what injuries caused the death?
Ruptured spleen, or fractured skull?

What if the cyclist had survived the impact.... would he be prosecuted for jumping the red light?

It is most unfortunate for all concerned that this young man met his death, but somehow this has led to the driver being somehow more culpable than had he survived.
He has not accidentally come into conflict with our driver - he has made a series of conscious decisions, accepted risks, and now he isn't around to face up to the consequences, the driver is taking ALL the blame.
1. He CHOSE to ride on a dual carriageway and not the cycle path provided.
2. He CHOSE not to wear a cycle helmet.
3. He CHOSE to jump a red light, and possibly failed to see the vehicle into whose path he strayed.

a. She admitted driving above the speed limit
b. She admits she didn't see him - it was just after 7.00 am, we have yet to hear if he had lights on.
c. She denies using her mobile.

I will be interested to know why she insists she was not, when an alleged expert witness says she was.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Let’s discuss the case of a car that “runs down” a person, then discuss the case where the person “runs down” a car - or tries too!

In the first case, the reaction of the driver can make a difference. If she is going slowly or is watching carefully, the event either doesn’t occur, or has a different outcome in some way. If we define a set of preconditions that must be fulfilled for the event of death to happen, they could be (for example): car is fast, cyclist is negligent, driver is distracted, junction is lousy etc. If you took away any one precondition, the outcome would have changed. Death is unlikely at low speed, an law abiding cyclist would wait, an observant driver could predict and stop the event, a better junction design might work etc.

But in the second case, only the action of the cyclist can make the difference. Although the driver’s behaviour (speed, position) are still preconditions, there is less opportunity for her to modify them. Rate of motion (a far better term, BTW, less emotive) is still a factor, of course. In this case, it is the speed of the cyclist that matters, because no-one ever gets hurt by ramming the side of a car at 1 mph! And of course, if the driver is way too fast, she is in more danger from other events that are coming up.

A guilty verdict has just come in:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/ ... 222690.stm


How close is "close to", I wonder...

And one would hope that Jordan Wickington's death would also deter other cyclists from running red lights, as it underlines all too clearly the potential consequences.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

DAY 4

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Just heard this on the news. There was no mention of sending out a message for cyclists (or any other road user) not to go through red lights.

This case is a sad example of what can happen when two idiots come together at the same time and place.

Of course they are pleased with the outcome. They have created an excuse to say "mobile phones are dangerous, if you use one then pay us."
I think the red light is not that relevant, the accident happened at the merge point didn't it? That's quite a way from the lights from the look of the aerial photo.

Also, how many people cycle or drive past red lights every day? Quite a lot I'm sure. And how many of them hit anything or come close to hitting anything?

It seems to me that two people didn't look properly. Maybe one was distracted. Maybe they both were.
So they should be saying "look properly" and "don't allow yourself to get distracted". But nooo.

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Andrew.

does the red light jumping cyclist get a Darwin Award?

I don't like this "we can jump red lights 'cos we are small cyclists and if we hit anyone we don't do much damage" attitude. Well, most, red lights are there for a reason and if you choose to ignore them you have to face the concequences, just like other road users do. Sure if the driver had been watching what she was doing she might have missed him, but if he was stopped, where he was meant to me, it wouldn't have mattered that she was on the phone, that's what the stop line is for. If individuals won't take responsibilty for their own safety why should anyone else?

I see my question has been answered - HEAD INJURIES.

but despite being a scaffolder, and as such aware of the importance of wearing protective headgear, FAILED TO WEAR A HELMET, and rode through a red light.

It also appears that the cyclist rode into the SIDE of the car?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I have to say from what I’ve read of this case it sounds to me that this woman is being used as a scare tactic towards the motorist. They should be emphasising how dangerous it is for cyclists (or anyone else for that matter) to run red lights. I’d also still like to know if she was actually using a mobile phone or not when the accident happened or, are they keeping the details hidden.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Ke?



Try telling how non-dangerous cycles are to the pedestrians I've seen leap out their way, after stopping at crossing lights/zebras etc to see cyclists flash past me.

problem seems to me, while I'm not bothered on the whole with cyclists manuvering their way through lights, theres the stupid (and usually militant) minority who regard it as some some of right and priviledge, and accidents like this are only a matter of time.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Scaffolder?! That'd be a miracle-specially considering he rode through a red light!

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Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

Be careful - on past experience we'll probably get his mum posting on here saying what a lovely lad he was

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I would agree that she is being made an example of in order to put out the (wrong) message about mobile phones.

Maybe she was distracted, but what was to stop HIM from looking and noticing HER? He wasn't wearing a helmet, so he could well have suffered severe head injuries even if she'd just tapped him. If this had been two cars in the same situation then I suspect there would have been a 50/50, since it's clear to me that BOTH parties made mistakes.

IMO this is a perfect opportunity to put out a message about concentrating and looking out for the unexpected, but as usual it's being simplified to the point where the message actually holds no real value at all.

As an asside, I saw one of the new don't-use-the-phone-whilst-driving ads last night and I was actually fairly impressed. It actually blamed the person MAKING the call, not just the driver, with the tag line 'as soon as you know they're driving, kill the call'. Certainly a more constructive approach IMO.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Err.. Liebchen - it was the CYCLIST who DECIDED to RIDE through a red light.

She say he had no hi-viz. I can believe that statement based on what we see daily.

What was his excuse for going? He waited .. it seeme quiet. He was two-third of way across when she drove through the lights. There an angle as Ern point out. There no mark to show exact point of this impact though. You cannot say she speeding as there zero proof of her actual speed.


[/quote]
No, green light means proceed with caution, orange light means stop.[/quote]

Ja.. we have always said "green" only mean you may go if safe for you to do so,


But this cyclist went through not on green or amber but on RED all the same. SO .. what do you think if his actions? Was he wise? Should he not have obeyed basic rule of Highway Code?


There case currently about to hit Swiss courts again. A 10 year old. She wait NEAR a crossing. Just as the 63 year old driver approach und he was slowing down for crossing just ahead.. she bolt across the road. He could not avoid a hit. She break her arm.

He not charged. SHE ist in court next week for jay-walking. I think we need this law here.

She allegedly on Handy phone. There seem to be an assumption from way report read that she reply to husband.. but there would be a evidence of the text. I would say that she read the text which ist a .


My Handy switched off when driving. Locked away in cupboard whilst at work .. it do strange things in lab. If I need to make a call en route to let Ted know I stuck somewhere like the other night on M6 where wind attacked the trucks - I make the plan to stop at the service station to make this call.

I do not understand the slavery to these Handy efforts. It just a phone to me. I hate using phones too.. as I always end up "fishing for right word to use"

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Exactly.. the cyclist made choices. As for "expert".. An "expert" wrongfully convicted a lot of mums of killing their babies when the child died of natural und extremely tragic causes of a cot death. Another "expert" has led to many children being subjected to measles based on flawed research und no matter how disproved.. the mud ist sticking on MMR.

For record.. the vaccine ist safe. It does not cause severest side effects.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

He might have been saving up for Uni


But RED LIGHT mean for all road users in any country. In Switzerland.. this would also have been taken into consideration as far as any sentencing for the incident concerned .. assuming proven that the Handy had been used

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

That doesn't matter though, still no reason to run him over.

Red means stop, you can't expect to ignore the rules then when it all goes wrong blame some one else.

He place himself in danger through action of dark clothes.. und jumpiing a red light. She not see him for some reason.. but he still should have been looking out for traffic.

Little girl ist in court in my homecountry next week. She knocked down by a car. She run out in front of him on red man. She break her arm...

Swiss have 407 KSI this year .. 8% increase against previous year which per capita of population equate to our 3500 which then not sound so "impressive" These have been increased car-car/ car-cyclist und cyclist-cyclist in reality when you look a bit deeper at the results on Swiss gov site.

But run a red light in Switzerland so how you travel und you in biggest bother. Und they fine pedestrians und cyclists for this justas they do the drivers. It one rule I do support und one which should be imported to UK.

Because had he obeyed the law.. he would be alive today.

You were asked question. I asked you if you think he wise or for any cyclist wise to BREAK the LAW und run a red light?

You respond with the blaming the driver. He just as culpable und he also break a law und act irresponsibly just as much as she did.. because allegedly looking at a text message und not COAST-ing at all. Her sentence should at least keep this factor in mind as his action created the circumstance for tragedy to occur just as much as her eyes off the road at this split-second did.

I ride my motorbike und my bicycle as responsibly as drive car. I show courtesy to other road users und I do not ever go through a traffic light on red signal. I approach them with caution as Murphy Law dictate they will change.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

And green means proceed with caution, you can't expect to ignore the rules then when it all goes wrong blame some one else.