Safe Speed Forums

The trouble with laws, all laws IMO, is that they are too black or white.

30 mph, ok 31 mph, not okay and you're a criminal and speed kills blah blah.

1ml under the alcohol limit, ok 1ml over, you're DRUNK

Cycle on a cycle path ok Cycle 1 Metre beyond the end lane or 1 inch over onto the pedestrian part, you're a maniac!

The only gray area we have left, which is rapidly being eroded away, is the ability for a member of the public, a judge, or a police officer etc. to say "you know what - under the circumstances I think you're ok. I could prosecute but I wont because I understand the situation and can make an informed decision about it".

I'm not trying to make a case for doing anything wrong and I don't advocate breaking the law. All I am saying is what ever happened to common sense?

I don't like where it's all leading

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yes, but when not 'following the law without question' attracts inflexible punishent, it's easy t see why people might behave in this way.

You can presume that, but the only vehicle you can be certain will appear in that batch of photos is yours...

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Chris

And in any case, even if they DO see the emergency vehicle, they wont say "Oh Look, he was obviously getting out of the way of the Emergency vehicle, well let this one pass"

No, they will NIP you anyway and you will have to fight it with all the stress, inconveniance, expense and hassle that goes with it!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I've had a wave and thumbs up from Police for doing 85 in a 50. Even though they only wanted to do 70.

Single carriageway A road (that could easily have been NSL), I'm plodding along when I notice the blue lights approaching from the distance, clearly not wanting to do me for anything. Other direction is full of vehicles, so as they get closer I speed up to the speed that they want to do allowing them to follow me with a large gap between us.

As we approach the only left turning on the road for a good few miles, I put my left signal on half a mile before the turning and speed up to 85, making the gap even bigger, I approach the turning, jam on the brakes and pull over quickly into the turning, using it as a small layby to allow the police past.

They seemed happy enough for the passenger to stick their hand out the window and wave. Wouldn't have dared do it if there were cameras about though.

Blokes have to do the "I don't need no stupid law" thing. We're genetically pre-programmed to challenge authority and get worried when someone has "power" over us. Something in the genes propels each of us to try to be the one with the power.

We (as well as the coppers) know that domination does no good on the roads. Yet cooperation means abandoning the "I don't need no stupid law" thing, and accepting our vulnerability. We become victims, on rare occasions, and even (Holy shit!) loose out sometimes.

So it's right to grumble, but it's OK. It only has to be fair enough most of the time for things to work well enough. That's the best you can expect.

My Rospa observer was an ex trafpol, I asked him this and he said you still get done, take a note of the time and place. Balls I say, stay put and wait for green.

A question for Valle Crucis:

Two masked men break into your house while you are out, your wife however is in.

One helps himself to your belongings and the other helps himself to you wife.

As they leave they pour petrol down the stairs and carelessly discard a cigerette. Poof!

You dial 999 and all 3 are on there way.

Trouble is I am at the front of the queue at the lights that are "protected" by a camera. I don't do points.

Do you

a: respect my wishes to protect my clean diriving licence

b: want me to get the f***k out of the way so they can catch the bar stewards, put the fire out and help your wife?

I couldn't ask for a better example of "I don't need no stupid law" than this. You are not the only one to dream up hypothetical difficulties and violent resolutions. All blokes with balls go around like this all the time. The idea is to reign it in - that's true power.

Generally (though not always) one can assist an emergency vehicle coming up behind while you stopped at the lights by nudging forward and to the side. Typically there is room for them to create a moses lane by doing this. The other evening I was in the nearside of two lanes at a lights-at-peak-time-controlled roundabout, wanting to go straight on (into what is a wide road but busy and with lots of keep left islands), while others in the offside lane wanting to go right. Lighrs were red, sirens behind. The chap on my right was "left justified" in his lane and he'd slightly overshot the whilte line already. I was unsure of the intended direction of the ambulance, so having realised that traffic coming around the roundabout had stopped, with the ambulance still 2 - 3 seconds behind me, I pulled sharply in front of the chap on my right. Once the ambulance had gone, I jumped the lights, because to stay put would have held everyione up (I effectively blocked the traffic for the ambulance). I saw no camera flash, and am unsure what I would do if I get paperwork (because I'm in a company lease car, it is not timed out for another few weeks).

Had a situation like this in London a few months back. Stopped at red traffic light with central island. Traffic light has a camera on it.

Police riot van then pulls up behind me, sirens blaring and blue lights flashing. In spite of the camera Plod was gesturing at me to move forward.

I simply ignored his gesturing and pulled forward when the lights changed.

Had this happened 10 years ago I'd have pulled forward to let him through, but in this case - tough.

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

If he was actually gesticulating I suggest you were technically guilty of failure to obey a police officer (which "trumps" the RTA)

True - but try telling that to the local magistrate when you end up with a £60 fine and 3 points. And of course Plod will be nowhere to be found when you need to call him as a witness to say that he gestured you to drive through the red lights.

For the 30 seconds or so that he'd be held up - tough. Currently have 6 points (until April anyway) for being a few MPH over the limit a couple of times, not going to take any more. Not for any overpaid copper who can't wait to get back to the station for his coffee and doughnuts.

I'm afraid that any respect I may have once had for the police has long since evaporated. Mostly due to their vendetta against the motorist (I drive 35,000+ miles a year, mostly for work) although there are other reasons. Which I won't go into here other than to say that I've recently been on the receiving end of police victimisation.

So no, I don't care how many times they flash their blue lights and blip the siren at me, I'm not going through a red light. End of.

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

That rasies a very good point: increased fear of inflexible/automated enforcement has come along at the same time as decreased respect for the police (possibly connected), making this kind of thing all the more likely.

well, do you want me to move through the lights or respect me not wanting points?

Hypothetical difficulties don't all need an obvious conclusion - it depends on the motives. If I was about to go off to Spain with my dolly bird secretary, my wife's life is insured for 750K, and the house was rented, then I'd be much obliged if you stayed put, please!

I think, on the balance, it was a fair move. If these cameras catch the amber gamblers, it'll be safer, on the balance, for us all to cross at lights. And who knows, by staying put, you could have prevented another Jean Charles de Menezes fiasco! You might be a hero and not know it.

They don't. They are red light cameras.