Safe Speed Forums

malcomw wrote:
Could you clear up one point for me. Do HATOs patrol the motorways (you know, drive along at 50mph in the inside lane ) or do you work from a parked-up base and get called in as required.

Both

We normally patrol between 50-60mph. Good TO's will adjust their speed to keep traffic flowing and not cause a bottleneck, especially with LGV's.

The reason for this speed is to prevent bottlenecks at 70 by all the numpties who daren't pass, even when they get close enough to see that it is not a police vehicle.

We do park up at strategic points. Over the past year or so, statistics have been gathered showing the 'hot spots' where incidents are most likely to occur. We generally park so that we have easy access to these areas, but also to the rest of the patrol area. The development of this information is ongoing and will be refined to reflect time of year/ time of day etc.

I really don't understand all the indignation about TO vehicles looking vaguely similar to police vehicles, even though no police forces that I know of currently use Shoguns or Landcruisers. There are other organisations about using similarly marked vehicles who have not come in for the criticism levelled at Traffic Officers.

The markings (battenberg) is for high visibility and is recommended by experts as the safest (most noticeable) scheme. As far as I am concerned, when I am working in 3 lanes of traffic, the more hi-vis the better

So:

- you drive along at 50-60mph like the police;
- you drive a vehicle which much more than "vaguely" looks like a police car;
- almost nobody can tell at a distance who you are;
- the police also have traffic officers;
- you admit that a percentage of drivers will not pass you, "just in case"

and you wonder why people confuse you with the police. Most people don't know you can't nick them.

Why not use high-viz pink and black check? No confusion then.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Because all of the above will still apply

And pink would clash terribly with my orange/yellow hi-vis jacket


I still haven't seen any kind of explanation why you (some people in general) object to the colour scheme other than it looks vaguely like a police car.

What is the problem with it resembling a police vehicle?

You are not police. Would it be OK if I drove round in a vehicle painted up in chequer pattern? After all, I'm not in the police either.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

You stooge along at 50 to 60, that's fine... Except too many numpties don't appear to know what the national speed limits are, assume that you are cruising at the limit and jump on the anchors.! Not really conducive to road safety, peace of mind or fuel consumption.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Give them a break. It's hardly their fault there are numpties on the road.

I welcome HATOs and believe they perform a necessary and useful function that does relieve pressure on police. I'm particularly reassured to note they (or Pinto at least) is conscious of the need to keep traffic moving freely so cruise well below the speed limit, so as to mitigate numptyism.

I think it should be quite possible to make the vehicles look more obviously 'not police'....for instance the police don't drive crew cab flat bed transits.

I would suggest that there are plenty of people in 'authority' who are more than happy that your vehicles give the impression of there being plenty of police on the roads.

Don't let these comments detract from that fact that on balance I feel you carry out a worthwhile service.

What are these "hot spots" (what happens at them) and where are they located (general characteristics, not exact location)?

Agreed in full. I just hope it stays this way. If there are any changes then I hope it's just to make them more useful. They should not be given any powers to prosecute people, as once they are, there's no way back and people will have lost faith in them forever. Even dealing with genuinely crap/dangerous driving should be left to the real police, because HATOs just don't have the required level of training. As ever, there's no substitute for traffic police.

I don't think that even this lot would dare to give them the power to do people for speeding, but you can never be certain, especially when it comes to motoring. Common sense just doesn't seem to figure.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I've said earlier that I reckon they do a damned good job and I know it's not the fault of the HATOs themselves that their vehicles look very much like police, but one can only assume that the decision to make them appear so may carry more than a degree of "spin" in that it must have been intended to give the impression that there are more police around than there actually are. I guess it's the same reason that PCSOs are virtually indistinguishable from real "plod".

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

I sense a degree of animosity.

Why blame Hato's for other motorists now knowing the correct speed limits?

What if these motorists thought you were travelling at the speed limit and followed you at the same speed? (not suggesting you would exceed the statutory speed limit of course)

I feel that there is an education job to be done as far as explaining to the public what Traffic Officers are about, but that takes time and money.

Yes, perfectly OK.

Nothing to say you can't decorate your vehicle with this pattern.

Hot spots are areas where incidents tend to occur on a more frequent basis.

They are often merge points, where traffic enters the main carriageway but sometimes there doesn't seem to be a logical reason for them.

I go back to the question I posed earlier.
What is the problem with Hato vehicles resembling Police vehicles.

Both Police and Hato vehicles are relatively rare on motorways I can't see either causing a significant problem.

Honestly, none whatsoever. IMHO you guys are doing a great job.


Sorry if it comes across that way...

I'm not blaming you or your colleagues in any way, I'm blaming those who decided the livery of your vehicles, not considering (or more likely being damned certain) that you'd be mistaken for the police, perhaps with the intention of making it seem like there are more police on the road, but neglecting the "Law of Unintended Consequences" (something the present administration has elevated almost to an art-form) in that it has a rather dramatic effect on the motoring numpty population.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Pogo, not a problem

Not trying to labour a point, but why is a resemblance to Police vehicles a problem? The consequences you refer to are generally the result of numpties, as you put it, and these numpties are always going to cause problems.

If it means a driver who is exceeding the speed limit lifts off untill he/she is sure it is a Hato vehicle, so what. Hato vehicles are less common than police vehicles, so how often will a driver feel the need to slow down, and will that odd occasion make any significant difference to a journey?

Balance that against the safety of Traffic Officers working on the motorway (and the people they may be protecting) and in my (admittedly biased) view it is a 'price' worth paying.

There was a lot of consultation and research done, both with the police, and independently to arrive at the safest equipment for us to use. Every employer has a duty to assess risk and protect, as far as possible, its employees by using the safest equipment and practices.

Is this really the case? Observations would not seem to back this up.

I'm sorry but this point is basically an official lie. There are at least a dozen different and equally safe ways to make HATO vehicles highly visible.

If 'officials' hadn't wanted them to look like Police vehicles they would have chosen significantly different colouring.

You're being paraded in front of the public as a cheapskate substitute for Police. The general public can't tell the difference and that's no accident.

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Paul Smith
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Across our area there are twice as many Roads Policing units as there are Hato vehicles.

I can't comment on exact numbers in other areas, but since they deal with a much wider range of issues, both on, and off the road, I would expect their numbers to be significantly higher.

I did see some figures for the number of roads policing units, by police authority, on the internet. It was in response to a parliamentary question, but I can't remember where it was!