Safe Speed Forums

I just came upon this notice while looking for something on the Royal Mail website:

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/cont ... d=61300695

This is the first I've heard of this new 56 mph limit on all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes. Given that the new law comes into effect in less than a month, where is all the publicity?

Or is it being kept relatively quiet for an ulterior motive?

A speed limit for trucks over 7,5 tonnes is already there for over 10 years and is a failure in my view. It is hindering smooth traffic flow and traffic unsafety seriously increased. The number of terrible accidents with trucks crashing at the "correct" speed into the tail of a traffic jam without any trace of braking has become every day news here.
I think it is absolutely wrong to expand that rule to trucks from 3,5 tonnes onwards.

Which one do you mean ?
Are you talking about the 40mph on single carriageway roads, the one that few trucks bother with ?
Or the 50mph on dual carriageways , the one that few trucks bother with ?
Or the 60 on m/ways, which they have to obey because it is electrically/mechanically enforced ?

And why blame speed limits because truck drivers are unable to look ahead ?

Roll-on the day when all trucks and vans are fitted with digital tachos and the drivers hours can be checked with little chance of fiddling.

The 90kph on motorways enforced with a speed limiter.
Why do you think the drivers do not look ahead?

The incidences of these kinds of crashes INCREASED with the installation of limiters because the presence of a limiter decreases arrousal and thus the driver is more likely to become distracted. The problem isn't necessarily to do with hours worked, there are many other factors too.

Digital tachos are just as prone to fiddling as paper charts - you can still use someone elses card, or claim to have 'lost' yours and apply for another one. There are also cases of drivers working digi during the week and then paper at the weekend. We won't go into the serious flaws in the way digital tachos actually RECORD driving time, which have led to drivers being reported for over hours when they actually weren't - so much so that the ministry has actually commissioned a couple of hauliers to run BOTH symultaiously to assess the difference...

The major problem with goods vehicles under 7.5T is that most of them are driven by car drivers with no additional training. Quite franky, as the number of 'new' drivers increases, its likley that the humble 7.5 tonner will disappear - a 12tonner doesn't cost that much more and if the driver has to have an additional licence, its as cheep to do cat C as it is to do C1.

Incidentally, did you ever stop to wonder WHY so many trucks don't stick to the 40 and 50 limits? Could it be to try to reduce the number of stupid and dangerous overtakes performed by drivers who don't know that the limit even exists? Or could it be that its bloody boring driving at 40 or 50 on a perfectly clear, straight and suitable road?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Yes, I think it has been extremely poorly publicised. It's not just goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes either - it's minibuses too! Except they're limited to 62 rather than the 56 that the goods vehicles will be limited to - which will make for some interesting overtakes!

The only thing I've ever seen on it was this VOSA leaflet:

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit ... ations.pdf

and I've never seen a paper one - only the electronic copy!

If we didn't build minibuses at work, I'd never have heard of it at all!

It is simply that.

Since when is training a benefit when it is about collisions with people harmed?

It is bloody boring to drive at 40 or 50 on a perfectly clear, straight and suitable road. I do not mind trucks do not stick to the speed they are supposed to, I always pray they don't, then I do not have to overtake them.

"It is likely, once all the changes to vehicles requiring road speed
limiters have taken place (after 1 January 2008), the national
motorway speed limit for goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes and
buses will be lowered.
Restricting all vehicles in these classes to the same speed limit will
reduce any competitive advantage of older vehicles (which are not
required to have speed limiters)"

I thought about this as I drove home tonight. I was behind an artic on a dual carriageway, at 65mph. I was still behind the same artic when the dual became single, and the artic was at 60, and then back to the dual, and the 65mph. And no, my speedo isn't wrong, at an indicated 60mph the true speed is 58mph.

In any case, getting the hours wrong could lead to a sudden lack of the lgv licence.....

Dis-one

and dis..

Two drivers at my place of work had infringement notices sent to them for driving hours violations. In both cases they HAD done well over the allowed time, but only because the COMPANY had not given them any training on the digital tacho operation. In any case, one of the drivers must have been well over his hours since he also drives a company van....

So either the artic you were following had a dodgy limiter or your speedo IS wrong...

There's no difference in the law regarding how many hours you can work on a digi - its exactly the same as for a paper licence so I don't see your point about training?

I know of a driver who was tagged for hours violations as a direct result of the digi-tacho's 'quirks'. See, with an analogue tacho, you set it to 'Drive' and it records the time until you switch it over to something else, whether you're actually moving or not. With a digi, it automatically switches between 'drive' and 'other work' EVERY TIME the vehicle stops. So, if you're in stop-start traffic it is forever changing state. Trouble is, every time it switches to 'Drive' it records AT LEAST 1 mintue, and partial minutes are rounded UP.

Therefore, if you stop and start more than once in a minute then it records more than a minute's driving time...

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

No, the speedo is consistent. 2mph overread. Backed-up by the satnav, which is about a tenth of one mph out...
As for the digital tacho....I don't think that its quirks were responsible for a 9 hour continuous drive somehow....and since neither guy (ordinary car licences) knows how the tacho works, or what to do other than plug the card in...................

So the issue in that case is nothing to do with the digi tacho specifically, but a lack of understanding of drivers hours rules, as a result of being able to drive a 7.5 tonner on a car licence... That was the point I was trying to make about the problem with 7.5 tonners being that you can drive 'em on a car licence....

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Not any more.
The problem is more to do with the driver not understanding that you have to tell the tacho that he/she is on a rest period, you cannot just stop.
In any case, they both have warning letters about it.

Ok - stupid question here: what does a goods vehicle over 3.5 tonnes look like? A small lorry or a big transit van?

A small lorry. AFAIK only the largest high-top LWB sprinters are over 3500kg, but all oher panel vans are 3500kg or less.

This is Isuzu's 5 tonner...

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

And could this bit of legislation be the reason for a lot of 3.5t vans and few over it ?

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Naa, more to do with the new drivers act and taxation class. That and I think you need an 'O' licence to run anything over 3500kh.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

How long ago was it that the license categories were changed and newly licensed drivers only granted up to 3.5t -- Maybe 10 years or so? I think that may well account for increased popularity off the smaller vans. Those of us with older licenses were grandfathered and can still drive up to 7.5t.

c1997 I think