Safe Speed Forums

Yeah. But evidently they haven't! I've been driving a car for 27 years and I've successfully managed to never have pulled out on a motorcyclist, cyclist, car, HGV, horse, jogger etc...

My eyes are no different to anyone else's - how come I can safely manouvre my vehicle(s) then?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

This reminds me of that old Chinese adage: "You listened, but did you hear? - you looked, but did you see?"

For road users, 'Looking' doesn't mean casting a cursory glance in a particular direction - it means 'observing' what's going on - it means being aware that you are not the only vehicle on the road and maybe, just maybe, someone else is outside of your precious cocoon...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Because you are more aware of potential problems and take a bit more care/pride in your driving than the average 'clone-in-a-car'?

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

It's possible that your error is still in the future. Perhaps you have been lucky?

I did it once. Oh I didn't cause a crash, but a biker did appear out of nowhere. I was so concerned that I drove around the block to repeat the circumstances. That's when I personally discovered that the A pillar could hide a biker. I wrote about it <here>.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

You've obviously not met my wife

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

If he genuinely hasn't looked properly on occaisions then yes, perhaps he has been lucky.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Not at all,

I am simply stating that, whilst it is done with the best of intentions, some actions such as headlights on and (some types of) "High Viz" do not always make the riders easier to see. and indeed can frequently make the situation worse.

It is a mistake to assume that because you are lit up like a christmas tree and covererd in bightly coloured contrasting patterned leathers that others cannot possibly fail to see you and that in fact you might actually be making it harder for them to do so

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

So what do you think the answer is then?

I know about motion camouflage and dazzle camouflage and I hear what you're saying re: headlights & HiViz clothing, but bikers cannot be expected to carry several different bits of kit to change into depending on which way the sun is shining etc... - or indeed cannot turn their headlights off, if they're hardwired...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

We need to fit a radio transmitter to our bikes that will stomp over Radio Local, or Nannies Story Time or whatever they are listening to, with a constantly transmitted message saying "Oy wake up you dopey car driver, there is a bike coming so look properly"

[This post is dripping with sarcasm so please keep your panties on car drivers ]

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

It's a risk reducing excercise to wear Hi viz and/or use headlights which are designed to make you more visible in the vast majority of cases.

Unlike the idiot I almost hit last night cycling with no lights and wearing a DPM(camoflage) jacket

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert

But, apparently, doing those things make you less visible! (Even though I can spot plod on a bike a mile off, in front or behind, when he's got his lights & hi-viz on)...
What else can we do?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Well next time I'm in downtown Baghdad I'll be wearing full high viz and carry a searchlight

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert

Perhaps that's where we've been going wrong??? Black out our headlights and wear full camouflage gear? Then we'll be seen!

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I know it's not a proper bike but how about one of these




while wearing




you can't miss us then !!




Seriously though I think that the really reason for not seeing someone is down to not looking properly .

There may be phyisologial or eviromental reason for the ocassional mishap but most of the time it is down to laziness.

The vast majority of drivers are rubbish ,the general standard of driving is alwfull.

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert

I not sure, though I have been giving it a great deal of thought of late. I shal post more later



Then, to put it bluntly, you also have to accept that *sometimes* you are not particularly visible (and indeed effectivly cammoflaged) and that therefore it is not always entirely the other partys fault!

(the nearest I ever had to a SMIDSY involved a biker "coming out of the sun" with his light on. I am sure I would have seen him a *lot* more easily if the light had been off!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

What makes you think that? Laziness? What's your evidence?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

A nice emotive word Laziness isn't it !

People dont see other road users (not only bikes) for 4 reasons

1. Enviromental , sun in their eyes etc. Not much we can do about this but it seems to be an over used excuse.

2. Medial and/or fatigue - then you shouldn't be driving.

3. Distractions mobiles,Radios etc - then you shouldn't be driving.

4. Not giving your full concentration to the task in hand ie 'LAZY' driving aka driving without due care.

Documentary evidence for this is very difficult to produce, this is just my Opinion after 7 year driving RRVs which are designed to be as conspiquous as possible - retroreflective markings,flashing blue lights,flashing headlights , sirens etc and I am still amzed by the number of people who don't see you.

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert

Ummm, no. I take responsibility to make sure that I am as visible as possible. Be that by means of clothing or road positioning etc. Including being aware of the fact that if the sun is low down and behind me, then oncoming traffic may find it difficult to see me, which I accept. But if you're not sure whether to pull out or not because you can't see, then you should make the manouvre extremely cautiously.


And if his bike's headlight is hardwired and so couldn't turn it off, what then?

How did you manage to spot him? Did you just throw a cursory glance in his direction, or did you look properly?

I'm EXTREMELY anti car drivers that say SMIDSY because I'm positive that it's purely down to laziness & CBA, A-Pillars or not.

When I'm driving my car, I know what bit's I can't see through - they're usually the solid metal bits - and so I make sure I look around them or that there's been sufficient time to have allowed anything obscured by them to have passed. Not really that difficult to do, really...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I agree. 'If you don't know, don't go' is one of the first things you are taught during elementary driving lessons, so SMIDSY don't cut it.

I spotted him because I did look and spotted something that "didnt look right" and I tend to be a somewhat cautious driver. but it wasnt till later that I realised it was a bike.

I drive an asthmatic old VW transporter that would pull out quicker if I pushed it so I am more or less forced to take my time at junctions, which, of course, includes looking and I also like to make *sure* its clear before pulling out because it takes me a while to get up to speed and that truck on the horison can be on my bumper before I reach 30MPH

But I can easily see how others may have missed him under similar circumstances. (such as a more powerful vehicle which can pull out more smartly)



But what if you dont know that you dont know (IYSWIM)

Consider the following bizarre sounding example.

I have put a brick on an otherwise clear table top in the middle of an otherwise empty room. I ask the “Experimental subject” to go into the room and get me whats on the table. For *some reason* he fails to see the brick on the tabletop, and concludes that the table is completely empty and that it was a trick question. How many people would go back to the table for a second look before coming out to have a go at me- just in case the brick has suddenly materialised there??

If this sounds unlikely it really isn’t. Think of all those times you may have put down a spanner or screwdriver (or note on your desk) and then cannot find it again. You spend ages looking for it, (typically only to find it again once you have given up and started doing something else) and then you find that it has been Right_in_front_of_your_face all the time?

And this is something that you are specifically looking for and that you know what it looks like!

I am sure everyone is familiar with the “Gorilla suit” gag by now but it is an excellent example of how someone can look straight at something and simply not see that it is there. They are not going to look more closely because they don’t realise that they haven’t seen something.

Vision is (my guess) about 1% optics 99% pattern recognition and data processing. It is not enough to be *visible* one needs to be *recognisable*

Luridly pattered "Hi Viz" oufits may be *visible* but they can also be confusing. they can break up the visible outline and can even blend it into the background People simply cannot to work out what they are looking at, how far away it is or how fast it is traveling In extreem cases the brain may even just treat the image as "Noise" and ignore it.

D

PS My "favorite" colour is a light colourd bright blue. It is not a colour that occurs much in undergrowth so always stands out from the background, It is also particularly good under twilight conditions. The "Blue" road signs really stand out and are visible from "miles" away. the others (reds/greens/yellows/browns/whites) only stand out when you are much closer. The same goes for leathers!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"