Safe Speed Forums

I got my summons to appear in court on monday 19th Nov.
I thought i knew where i kept my licence, but ive just looked and its not there!, ive turned the house upside down, but still cant find it, and they need me to bring it to court with me on monday. what should i do or can i say to them?
My offence was that i was traveling on the M4 doing 81mph and i did not realise that i had enterd a 50mph zone, it was 1am and i had already been driving for 3 hours (i took a break in Bristol services though) but i got flashed doing 81mph by the newport roadworks.

This is my second offence because last year i got 3 points and a £60 fine for doing 40 in a 30!

Im planning to plead guilty and say sorry, i plan to say " i am very sorry, but i did not become aware of the 50mph zone untill it was too late and the flash from the speed camera made me aware of it.
the reason i was doing 81 instead of 70 which is what i thought was the legal limit in that area, is because it was 1am, i was alone on the road and driving perfectly safely. had there been workmen about, i would have noticed this by seeing flood lights ahead and other vehcles lights.
I had already been driving for 3 hours from Essex to Wales and wanted to get home before i got too tired to drive safely. i am very sorry and have been driving with much more caution since this offence"
dose that make sence and am i right in saying this?
what do you think they will do if i havnt got my licence?
what could the outcome be?
I will update on the 19th in the evening to let you all know what happened, but i need advice now thanks.

I am guessing that a check on the DVLA or PNC database should be able to confirm that you have a license - you might be able to get your local plod to produce a statement to that effect for you to present in court. I have no idea if this counts as misuse - hopefully a BiB will be along to confirm or tell me off for even suggesting such a thing!

How sure are you that the roadworks signage was adequate? If the signs were not present you were not guilty of exceeding a 50 mph speed limit.

I hav'nt been back at that road works area since that night when it happened, but my friend is a courier van driver and he passes that area once every week, and he told me that the camera is very closely positioned at the start of the 50mph restriction zone, and he's witnessed loads of people slamming their brakes on and getting flashed by the camera

Avoid the "too tired" thing as they will suggest stopping in lay-by or services.

Just say you were just intent on getting home und it seem you miss the 50 mph sign in the dark. You still in the doggy- dos over 81 mph in the 70 mph but this would be fixed penalty und not necessarily court summons. Just apologise. You not aware that you creep up so high as you looking at road ahead in the dark but missed the sign on the hard shoulder in the dark (They usually low down ain't they here und only made stable by one sandbag draped over the rear leg of the fold-up sign Long term roadworks require an upright post with the lolly sign .. along with umpteen repeaters) .

You say you got done last year..

(They say the scams are supposed to make us all slow down after one ping.. but they don't. Prove they not work to even do what they supposed to do . They certainly do not save lives nor prevent accidents .. but then ... nice little earner just as you pass the first cones of course or a lolly change. ]

But if you were done last year.. ist it possible that they did not return your licence or that in moment of deepest upset at blot on prized possession.. you place in back of drawer in state of upset und that perhaps in current angst .. you cannot find it now for looking.

Calm down. (It not Michael Winner mode )


Systematically go through every piece of paper, shake each one in case it has managed to slip inside the folds or envelope in the drawer or folder where you think you place it. Did you have to take it to work for HR to photocopy for records und impact on ability to drive a company pool car? Did they return this to you?


These just suggestions to focus your hunt for this licence. It must be in house somewhere so calmly und systematically just look in all your normal places.. including wallets/purses/wife's handbag (with her permission of course.. we wimmin don't take kindly to a mere male just routing through our handbags ) und check all inside pockets of your suits und coats too.. just in case




I think if you have the number of your licence.. someone will be able to verify you do have one. If worst happen und you cannot find.. then explain calmly that you have hunted high und low und can only conclude it not returned to you or get lost in post after previous unfortunate encounter with a Gatso. I doubt if Swansea could get re-issue in time to you even if I see this post yesterday. Phone them up anyway to set in motion the replacement anyway. (Number ist on line .. BT phone number site ist place to find the number) If you can .. record the call so as you have proof of trying to get copy licence too.

Do get a decent legal rep. Ensure you let them know your job rely on licence. Might be worth learning some COAST skill from this too. If you get happy outcome.. check out IAM observation session or one off lesson with ADI to just hone und tone the observation skill so thatyou see the lolly.. und the cones.. und the Gatso Invest in a Tom Tom or similar which has scam location on them (If you update regularly.. it upload the tempos/mobile probables too )

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Thanks Wildcat for all your advice, i have taken on board what you said and hope my outcome will be ok, the good thing is that i have found my photocard licence but not my paper one, and earlier today i rang the court and explained this to them, and they said that the photo card licence will be acceptable for the hearing, but i may have to send the paper one at a later date, i have also found that the dvls will issue a replacement for £22, so that is what im going to have to do.

However i have avoided getting a solicitor, because to be honest i cant really aford his high charges as well as what ever charges the fine will be.

im sure that if i plead guilty and appologise the outcome would be no different than if i did the same with a solicitor , im not soure if im making a mistake however, but its now already too late as the hearing is this monday.

Just go to court and be straight and honest and explain the position (DON,T mention that you were prosecuted last year for the same offence) and just say you cannot find your paper licence as you have mislaid / lost it and have applied for a replacement one.

The magistrates are human just like all of us and should understand your position as you are not trying to pull a con trick you are just telling the TRUTH just something that may help, have you a "Digital" camera and is it possible for you to go back and take some photos as evidence of the 50 signs being close to the camera just something which might help you in mitigation at the hearing ?

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"There But For The Grace of God Go I"

"He Who Ain,t Made Mistakes Ain,t Made Anything"

Spannernut

so being that i cant find my paper licence which has 3 points written on it, is it best to keep quiet about the 3 points? or will they already know about them even if i havnt got my paper licence to show them?

in other words, do i tell them about my previous conviction if they ask if i have any?

If they ask, tell. "The truth... the whole truth.." It will make very little difference to what is meted out this time.

True.

But Liebchen - you are being done for this "crime" of missing a lolly sign in dark roadworks (und still in doggy-doings for the 81 mph in the 70 mph as still - er - above the lolly speed .. but this would be a three pointer if so pinged. Scammers are meany minded A BiB on empty road wirth no road works probably would not bother as they target the tonner brigades more.

You not being tried for past offence - though this can come into play in sentencing for much more serious crimes than this one. They probably would not bother on the Gatso ping.

Just keep calm und present yourself as having learned a hard lesson und just honestly say you did not see the lolly as you looking far ahead into distance und that you can kick yourself now. Do try to get a photo. Your wife/partner/pal can do this as you drive or they can drive you to the scene und you take the photos given this a motorway. If low sandbagged affair ..you can perhaps help mitigate outcome by this.

I reckon you could be looking at 4 -maybe 5 points if unlucky - but a bigger fine than the £60 (£90-£100 -ish plus court fees) based on what I read on these motoring sites - over on PH for example.

Get road angel or origin b2 They sell these in Halfords these days. You can go take look see for these und the Sat Nav/pogo versions of these too. . Invest in a couple of one-off lessons to tighten up observation or COAST skills as these points mount up towards bans.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

thanks everyone for your valued advice, i will post here tomorrow evening to let you all know how i got on in court.

Oh well ive come back from court now and the outcome was just as predicted!
they did give me a chance to tell my side of the story but i think their mind was already made up, and they threatened to ban me but decided to give me 6 points and £100 fine plus £45 costs.
they said that because i willingly pleaded guilty, that this went in my favor.

If i would have had a ban instead of the 6 points, im sure that would have been better in the sence that the ban would probably only have been 2 to 4 weeks, where as the points stay with me for 3 years! am i right in thinking this?

Oh well, I have 9 points on my licence now, dose anyone know if 9 points seriously affects my insurance premium ? If it dose them i would regard that as a further fine from my insurance company! isn't one fine enough already?

I believe many insurance companies ignore one 3 point speeding ticket.
9 points on the other hand..

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

And the next fine to come along - look at how much DVLA will charge you to
get the points wiped off - at present I think £22 .How much more in 4 years??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I think they will load on this one. You have to declare for 5 years as well. Be honest and explain the circumstances of this particular ping.. even though I know the insurers see things in ££££££££££££/

However, whilst once upon a time points on licence showed the driver was potentially careless and a risk.. these days it's become a bit like trying to diffentiate between A Grade students as far too many have the same "qualfication or endorsement" if you understand what I am getting at here

So disclose and shop around for the best deal. You were unlucky in that this was a tempo and as my Wildy of a wife pointed out.. the tempo lollies are not always so obvious as they should be.

By the way.. you still have to declare a ban for 5 years as well. This also includes tempo bans on health grounds and some health issues may result in ban on driving for 12 months. It's not the court's decision.. but the insuring sharks still have to be informed about this or it may invalidate a policy.

It's win-win for them .. and lose-lose for the policy holders most of the time. (does not matter if travel/home/car/life .. whatever )

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