Safe Speed Forums

Imo those marked roundabouts are one of the most dangerous road planning inventions around. They're always much more dangerous to negotiate than a normal roundabout...total menace.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Maybe there is some hope for the world - outside of usenet newsgroups.

Im reminded that some might say, you shouldn't have been there in the first place and should have guessed that he was going to cut you up before it even happened. I wonder what the SafeSpeed view is.

Well, in this scenario, I had about a foot of space either side (two lane roundabout). On one side, is the MG Rover, on the other is the kerb. I know I definitely had the correct line.

Im trying to explain now that I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, between kerb and MG Rover. I definitely did not drift or alter my position. This is just hindsight but I realise to a lot of people this means I always knew he was right there in that position and was going to cut me up.

Ironically, the junction we both took, is a two lane exit. There would have been plenty of room for him to keep to his lane instead of encroaching in mine and we could have exited the roundabout together and filtered safely without event. But ironically, after cutting me up, he then proceeded to drive drift across the face of the junction. I found it unusual for him to be racing and taking the racing line (yes, the lane discipline is described further down), when previously I had noted he was going really slowly around corners.



Mmhm. I see what you're saying. Apparently my explanations are little in the clouds and I embelish them to make them more interesting. Im too flamboyant for my own good. So be polite.

I was in the right hand lane on the approach to a roundabout to go straight on. Yes, there was an arrow for straight on in that lane, while the left lane is for left turn only.

I gather we both entered the roundabout together, actually I probably entered first as the traffic would have cleared my lane. The usual routine is take it tight to the kerb of the roundabout (middle circle bit) to avoid getting in the path of people coming round at 70 mph for the bypass, signal after the second exit for the third...



I can understand that. Makes perfect sense. I don't tend to drive like a splodge though. I observe road markings and lane discipline. Maybe that's my problem. No one else does.



Interesting rule. Is that for real? I didn't know that. I would imagine many police wouldn't know it either.

I had this a few years ago ...

approaching a traffic island (no traffic, rural area) there was one stationary car, in the farthest right of "3" lanes.....a "micra" (yes, I know that now ... ) No indication!

I was intending to go "straight on" which is in this case approx at around 200 degrees around the island. It was a "Micra" so I thought: "No problem, and no need to use the right lane............ I'll simply fall in with "her" as she rounds the island. Must be going MY way.

WE started away.........


Then she turns: .........LEFT into my rear offside door and tries to blame me? as she takes the 90 degree exit from the island!

Why?...............

Now I have learned (during my lifetime) that Women are a mystery, I'm a man of the world an' all that!.........this is true.

Yet.........

I STILL haven't figured out her logic........

There was one important thing you 'forgot' to highlight in a quote box...namely...

Perhaps you missed that bit?

For some reason a large proportion of the driving public have no idea how to drive onto and round a roundabout.

You can reduce your chances of having an altercation on a roundabout by not being side-by-side with another vehicle while circulating(as has been pointed out) and by presuming that every vehicle able to enter will do so in your path.

Then you can easily avoid these problems. Let others have the incident.

A good philosophy but one that is not always attainable...especially so where traffic is laned and controlled by lights...sometimes you have no alternative but to travel two or even three or more 'up'.

The danger point is 'just' behind the vehicle on your right so best to accelerate or slow slightly so you are 'staggered' rather than side by side.

I ride a motorbike far more than drive a car and I rarely have problems on roundabouts.

(Or it would be farer to say I rarely have problems on roundabouts that I don't predict and that any horn blaring and driving at cars is just for effect )

Am a bit unclear as to whether or not he collided with you here. If he did and failed to stop - then report it.

If no collision but he drove "aggressively slowly" - we count that as a motoring offence that was how we judged the standard of driving. We have pulled people for that in the past here as well as for speeding.

By your later post - seems he failed to spot the LH only lane marking on his approach. He may have been new to the area - looking for his signs. He may even have thought you had prevented his access to the outer lane as you approached the roundabout. Just a thought to evaluate each detail of the drive so that you can learn as much as you can from this experience You have to think just how whatever you did may have catalysed this. If you then consider he was an ":cesnored:t - then he was a t t and you then decide how you'd deal with similar t ts in the future

I've even gone around a roundabout again in such a situation before now On one occasion in the past? -I was on duty in an unmarked car (Had a bit of fun a few moments later )

But survival instinct? Two wrongs don't make a right any more than one wrong and one right make it safe and collsion free. Sometimes you have to cut losses and just do one lap of the roundabout and chill and breathe.

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I love that roundabout design personally, though I do find that there are certain areas of the country (eg the Wirral) where hardly anyone can use them correctly. They actually removed the spiral from M53 J4 because the local populace couldn't figure it out.

I had an amusing roundabout incident the other day, could have gotten nasty but it didn't, and I'll probably get told I should have known better after posting this, but hey...

I'm waiting to enter a fairly large roundabout, it's a fairly standard 4-way where two NSL single carriageways cross, it has no lane markings but everyone treats it as one gigantic lane and there is a constant flow of traffic from the exit to my right all going straight ahead at a fairly rapid pace (est. 30-40 mph). I've been there for a few minutes when finally a car starts turning left.

Figuring this may well be the only chance I get for a while I dump the clutch and floor my crappy old Volvo through the gap (plenty of room BTW) but then Barry McChav in his Saxo decides now is a good time to pull out of the exit to my left.

I have no choice but to try to go around him, I steer right and the back end starts sliding towards him, not good and quite suprising since this car has handled really well up until this point. In a Jermey Clarkson "more powar!" moment, I floor it again, thankful for FWD for once as I pull the back end clear of the Saxo, straighten up and leave the roundabout.

As they disappeared out of my view they were still stationary in the middle of the roundabout.

I guess the lesson here is not to make assumptions and pull out just because the car you're pulling out on is supposedly an old man's car.


I'm not entirely sure why the back end went. I'm reluctant to use the old diesel excuse, but can't really think of anything else. The Volvo hasn't done it before or since.

Nonsense, they channel traffic around the roundabout in a safe, predictable way and greatly reduce the possibility of lane conflict. This is especially true for signalised roundabouts (where spirals are virtually essential, really) but also works well for the busier non-signalised ones. You just have to get used to them.

With non-spiral roundabouts, anyone using L2 and then seeking an exit always runs the risk of conflict with someone in L1.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I saw it.

I didn't jump down anybodies throat.


--- Aditional... ---
My apologies if I sounded like I did.

Personally I find that whatever type of roundabout it is, there's always a numpty who drives appallingly. The trick is spotting the ones that are about to do something stupid in time to be somewhere other than where they are when the do it. The type of roundabout doesn't seem to make any difference.

I was going round the roundabout at the end of Erdinton High Street the other day in the artic, taking both lanes on the approach (I needed to make sure no-one could drive into where my swing would crush them) and someone still managed it. To do this he had to mount the kerb on the way into the roundabout to try to force his way into a gap half the width of his car and shrinking. I did laugh as he knocked both his offside hubcaps off while doing it.

I laughed even more as they rolled under my trailer and I drove over them...

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Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

I don't find that at all. People get confused as to which lane they're supposed to be in, cut across lanes dangerously and never indicate. And there are a number of these joyous creations in London where the lanes don't match up, you can follow one round and all of a sudden it will either disappear into the kerb or become a different lane heading towards a different exit.
I imagine it's somewhat different here than where you are, since there's probably ten times as much traffic and the standard of driving is a lot worse in central London - probably due to the frustration of it I would imagine.
They also discourage people from thinking about what they're doing, and I don't think that can really be a good thing. Instead of reading the sign and planning their navigation, they just mindlessly follow the markings on the road - which are often misleading.

Here is my thought for the day on 'the other fools out there'.

We have all done something foolish while on 2 or 4 wheels. How often have we done it ? - well, lets be charitable and say once per 10,000 miles.

We now do a 50 mile journey, and every other road user we interact with, say we do so over a 1-mile distance (on average). Hence for each one, we have a 1 in 10000 chance of being there when they do their 'foolish act' (assuming they are as 'good' a driver/rider as we are)

Now how many drivers do we interact with in those 50 miles ? - say 1000 ( that's 20 per mile).

Now my probability theory is letting me down, but it now seems to me relatively a lot more likely that during the 50 miles we will find someone somewhere doing something foolish near us - and don't forget they are all 'as good as we are'

You can play with the figures all you like, depending on the road conditions, but it does make a sobering thought, next time you go out for a 50 mile trip.

I hate these markings with a vengance. They absolutely do not result in predictable flow, more like everyone confusedly changing lanes.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

No he didn't collide. He did try taking the racing line when there was someone to the right of him. With no where to go, I just eased off and then followed. Oh, I know some people on the internet will pick up on the fact that I followed him, even though it was totally innocent because I was going to work and following him is the usual way to work, but if I don't say it now, I'll get ridiculed because someone else has assumed the worse...

It's not that I mind someone was undertaking me either, but it was the nature in which he did it to intimidate me. There was plenty of room to his left, to take the wrong lane around the roundabout and still pull off at the same exit as me taking advantage of the two lane exit road.



That's good to know, but it does rely on a policeman being around at the time. Out of interest, if someone does take the racing line on a roundabout, and in doing so, collides with someone alongside (and Im not talking about someone who has raced into the gap to cause an accident ehre...), if he had collided with me, what view would the police take?



I think he was well aware of it. I believe he had just became impatient waiting for me and went to the left hand lane to try to outaccelerate and therefore undertake me. And before anyone starts, I speak with hindsight. i don't know what his intentions were. He seemed to have been driving perfectly well up until that point according to my rear view mirror. I had no idea why he had gone to the left lane until I saw his motor about to scrape my wing mirror...



That is indeed a thought. It never happened obviously, I was just assuming the correct lane position. But one can never quite tell what runs through the heads of some people these days. And worse than that, people now are being forced to take responsibility for peoples perceptions - in all areas of life. If someone assumes something these days, it's your fault for not giving them enough information. I can envisage a time where people will have to go around with big signs on their cars saying "Now, Im getting into this lane... It's not because I want to cut you up or inconvenience you, but because I want to turn right here..." - though maybe indicators served such a purpose?



That's very hard to follow, but I think I know what you mean.

I must admit, in my advancing years, being 30 right now, I've matured in my driving quite a bit. I don't get frustrated by people driving slowly - well, except if they're driving a tractor with half a mile of cars behind it, and they pass a safe layby to pull over - I wonder how I can report this for inconsiderate driving... It's usually not worth it to get worked up, because you only lose maybe, a few minutes at the most and you don't really make up any extra time.

But when it comes to erratic and dangerous drivers, depends how they drive, sometimes it can be beneficial to have them in front, sometimes its better to keep them behind purely because you havent a clue what they're going to do, and keeping them behind, I find I can control the situation a lot better and pace myself, and the driver behind. It does rely on being a little more assertive at times. But I'd never jeopardise my safety.



I couldn't even have continued to go around the round about because this driver had cut the gap so fine. I think safe assertiveness relies on being continually aware of your surroundings and making split second judgements and alterations to behaviour.

Some people will suggest you should guess what's going to happen, before it actually starts to happen. That's a bit too much guess work for me, and would have to rely more on seeing a slow, safe driver behind.

I believe I made appropriate use of feedback to make the right decision at the right time. I hate intimidation by other road users and I wish there were more police around who could prosecute and blame the offender rather than the victim. It may be controversial, but if I think I can safely fend off intimidation, then I will do it.

Cya
Simon

That's why I like to get there as fast as possible

Actually, not wishing to brag but I really don't get into situations which are difficult from one month to the next. (touch wood and all that). I probably average around 30,000 miles a year, in Englands second largest city and throughout the whole of the Midlands.

I really think it's because a good experience driver treats every other road user as an idiot or potential killer.

It's no good saying "but I was in the right!" from a hospital bed.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.