Safe Speed Forums

Well, were drifting a bit but I entirely agree with the core of what's being said. In fact I mentioned this yonks ago. Sorry if you've already seen it...

As a kid, before I even knew how to tie my shoelaces, I understood that the road was for vehicles and in order to cross it I had to - "look right, look left, look right again and if all's clear, cross".

The Green Cross Code man told you to move to a clear area in order to see better and be seen but where's anything like that today on the TV? I've got loads of TV stations but it's negligible! I didn't have a mobile phone or MP3 player stuck in my ear either, which helped!

These days you see all sorts of images and adverts, some I find very graphic and disturbing, all aimed at the motorist but what about a message for being a responsible pedestrian?

As a city dweller, I see youngsters wandering across the road with a total disregard for traffic at times. I guess they are driven everywhere so much these days that when they are actually forced to use their legs they think the road is just an extension of the pavement.

Hope I haven't broke a rule by mentioning it again but it just seems relevent.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The only roads that are for motor vehicles are motorways. Motorists use roads under licence and subject to many conditions and constraints, which are intended at least to reduce the dangers. By all means challenge these conditions if you genuinely think that they're the result of flawed thinking; but don't ever make the mistake of thinking that "roads are for motor vehicles".

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

So you're arguing that pedestrians aren't responsible for their own safety? That motorists should drive round at 5mph at all times to avoid the risk of hitting someone who decides to exercise their right to use the highway?

I don't normally do this because it's so very C+, but I'd be interested to see some evidence of what you're saying because it sounds rediculous to me.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

That bit is right. Youngsters taxied everywhere by over-protective paresnt don't just get fat and lazy, they never learn the kerb drill. When the lifts stop, usually at the age of 10 or 11, they've no idea how to cross the road safely, which can have tragic consequences. PARENTS! For the sake of your children's health and safety, walk them to school and teach them how to cross roads.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

Pedestrians have the survival instincts of a depressed lemming. If you trust them to stop, wait, look and listen before crossing then you could well end up hitting one.
What sort of evidence do you need? 700-800 peds die each year in traffic accidents, and all but a handful of these are killed on the road rather than the footpath.
You don't need to drive everywhere at 5 mph and you aren't expected to, even in Portsmouth, but you do need to appreciate that you're the one bringing the danger to the road and it's up to you to control that danger.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

671 in 2004 and 671 (same figure) in 2005.

But out of tens of millions of road crossings each day, we can only conclude that individual safety performance is remarkably effective.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised to learn that we have 60 million road crosssings each day - your imaginary 'lemming like' behaviour could take out 10% of the population each day.



You may find it 'a good idea' to blame someone else when you screw up. Around here we like to take full responsibility for our own safety and our own screw-ups.

We're all individually responsible for our own safety and the safety of those around us. The presence of a motor does not alter the nature or the extent of the responsibility one iota.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

But that's the point - if the pedestrians aren't in the road then surely they're not in danger? Yes its up to the motorist to take REASONABLE steps to be safe, but if some halfwit steps out in front of me without warning then what are motorists supposed to do?!

Its like saying 1000 people a year are killed by sharks and all of them were in the water... as a swimmer you (hopefully) understand the dangers of sharks and stay out of the water?

I fail to see your logic.

BTW I was asking for evidence that all but motorways are effectively (if I understand you correctly) free right of way to pedestrians and motorists have to ask nicely to be there.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

The motor is the hazard. The driver is responsible for the hazard.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

Told you above. It's not worth further discussion.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

You wouldn't put a shark in a swimming pool, or introduce piranahs to a river where people bathed, and then blame them for getting eaten.

You don't have to ask nicely; you just have to pass a test, register your vehicle, insure yourself to drive that vehicle, ensure that it has passed the MOT test and is othewise roadworthy, licence the vehicle and use it in strict accordance with all the laws that have been put in place to stop you killing people.
Most of those roads were built before cars were invented so it should not come as a surprise to you to learn that you don't need to be driving a car in order to use them.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

So pedestrians don't need to take care? Cyclists don't need to take care?

What about cliffs and canals? Should gravity be held responsible for accidents? Or water?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Cyclists have to give way to pedestrians. Not every cyclist knows this or accepts it.

You can hardly expect your car to have the same legal status as a natural hazard (or even a man-made one like a canal) or as a physical law.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

We should all take care.

I think we have a problem with the modern day pace of life and attitude in general. Maybe people have contempt for drivers because from the pedestrians viewpoint, if there's one thing that really gets my back up it's when I am trying to cross the road and it's like a chicken run because drivers are going too fast and making it very hard for me to walk across the road. Yes - I'm the goof you sometimes see running in front of you cuz you won't damn well slow down to let me get across when the traffic's coming to a halt anyway.

Once again, it's not so much the speed as the inappropriate use of speed in the wrong place or time. If I see the traffic slowing down, I back off the pedal to allow someone to cross a road or let a driver to pull out or give a cyclist some space. It's just good manners and it's how I was bought up in general; to treat people as you would wish to be treated.

Common courtesy cost nothing and I find I do it more so on my motorbike just to help dispel the myth that all bikers are obsessed with speed. I slow down to let people cross or allow other road users to manage our roads better and I do it with a smile I nearly always get a positive response back, sometimes with a look of surprise

It oils the wheels of highway felicity and if we ALL just behaved better on the roads we wouldn't need stupid laws for everything, but oh well. Back to my fantasy world...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Well said Tone.

Dondare. You either don't understand the argument or you don't understand the question. You're not from C+ are you?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I inhabit C+ and one or two other forum sites.
Not all "Dondares" are me but most are.

So, what was the question?

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

It is simply not possible to walk anywhere without having to venture into the road. You cannot tell pedestrians to stay on the footpath or expect them to; they need to cross roads and it should be possible for them to do so safely.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.

The question was...

Show me PROOF i.e legislation or other ruling that states that the roads are for pedestrians which is effectively what you're saying.

Of course you can't go anywhere on foot without venturing onto the road, but that doesn't give free rein to wander wherever one pleases without taking care.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Sorry to jump in here, but why are we all jumping on DonDare?

AFAICT he is stating that pedestrians/cyclists etc. use the road by right, whereas motor vehicles use them by licence. To the best of my knowledge this is quite correct.

Also the implication seems to be that everyone needs to be resposible for their own safety, regardless of mode of transport.

Or have I missed something?

I'm sorry, but this is wrong.

Not only do motorists pay for the roads, they also pay for a lot of the NHS, local government, etc etc.

Only a very small part of motoring taxation is spent on roads, the rest is wasted by other parts of government.

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www.misspelled-signs.com - A tribute to illiterate signwriters.

You might as well ask for proof that pedestrians are allowed to breath the air.
Before motor vehicles, (or indeed any other type of vehicle) were invented, pedestrians had the right to walk upon the surface of the road. This right has never been taken from them.
They are specifically prohibited from walking on motorways and that's it. In some countries (but not this one) jaywalking is illegal.

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Occasionally slightly trollish.