Safe Speed Forums

In case it's not clear:

The foundations and building blocks of safe driving are contained in the Highway Code. Whilst it is not the be all and end all of safe driving, a large proportion of road users in this country would benefit greatly by learning and applying the advice it gives.

I'm curious to know why you are using this 12% figure as a point of contention?

If 17% is "inappropriate" and "12%" in "excessive" the final result is 29% of accidents had someone driving too fast as a contributory factor (which is where they got the 1/3 thing from)

1/3 of crashes may not have "Exceeding the speed limit" as a contributory factor but certainly "Driving too fast" would be accurate.

There's nothing funny about any of the following:

Inappropriate or excessive speed was reported as a contributory factor in 29% of all fatal accidents. (Inappropriate 17%, Excessive 12%)

Loss of control was a contributory factor in 35% of all fatal accidents.

Careless, reckless, or in a hurry was a contributory factor in 18% of all fatal accidents.

Aggressive driving was a factor in 8% of all fatal accidents.

Every single one of these is directly related to the appropriateness of the speed drivers choose to drive at at any given time, particularly "Loss of control" accidents.

Incidentally - Stolen Vehicles are responsible for negliible amounts of KSI, something SS continually mentions as a major contributor (when it clearly isn't)

I'm curious to know why you are using this 12% figure as a point of contention?

If 17% is "inappropriate" and "12%" in "excessive" the final result is 29% of accidents had someone driving too fast as a contributory factor (which is where they got the 1/3 thing from)

1/3 of crashes may not have "Exceeding the speed limit" as a contributory factor but certainly "Driving too fast" would be accurate.

When you have your work peer reviewed, then it can be considered "credible". Until then, it is to be treated with caution.

If one is to consider Joksch curve, then as vehicle speed goes up, impact speed goes up, therefore the chance of a casualty increases.

So how can driving faster than the speed limit improve safety? If there are few hazards, going faster may not negatively affect it, but it sure doesn't improve it.

The FACT is that 95% of crashes didn't involve ANY vehicle exceeding a speed limit. This tells us that speed enforcement has the maximum potential to address 5% of injury crashes.

So are you arguing against a failed safety measure, or a revenue raiser?

I think we may be getting to the crux.

Where's the camera on the former Motorway section?

As part of the current M60 widening project, improvements at Junction 8 will result in the new roundabout becoming a Principal road instead of its current motorway classification. This will allow the Carrington Spur to be re-classified as an “A-class” non-primary road. Associated with the re-classification of the Spur road is a requirement to introduce associated Traffic Regulation Orders to prevent stopping on the road, to regulate speed and prohibit certain highway users.

I would advise you that we are in the process of introducing the Traffic Orders and a 50mph speed limit on the Carrington Spur, along with the relevant traffic signs. It is anticipated that these will become operative on 24 May 2006.

Please find attached copies of the Notice of Intent for the various Orders. We received a total of 4 objections to the proposed speed limit Order and none to the other proposals. I can advise you that the objections raised to the speed limit have been summarised and included in a report which has been considered by the Executive Member for Technical Services. After careful consideration of the issues raised, it was approved that the proposed 50mph speed limit be introduced. Please be advised that the objection period is over and we cannot consider any further objections.

I would inform you that consideration has been given to the Department for Transports (DfT) advice on speed limits (Circular Roads 1/93) when proposing the 50mph limit for the Carrington Spur. Existing vehicle speeds have been used to determine the most appropriate limit. Greater Manchester Transportation Unit has an automatic traffic survey site on the Spur and this reveals an average weekday mean speed of 48.45mph and an average weekday 85th percentile speed of 55.75mph (based on data recorded between January 2005 and November 2005).

These results also indicate that just over 66% of vehicles travel along the spur at 50mph or less (Average weekday flows).

The DfT advice is that if the observed 85th percentile speed is within 7mph or 20 per cent of the proposed limit, the limit may be introduced. The proposed limit, therefore, accords to the DfT guidance and the 50mph speed limit Order will be made as advertised.

If you require a copy of the sealed 50mph Order (or any of the proposed orders) you will need to send a cheque for £15, made payable to TMBC. The address to send the cheque and request to is The Traffic Section, 2nd Floor Waterside House, Sale Waterside, Sale M33 7ZF.

Should you require any further information please contact me.

Regards,

Paul Bentley
Traffic & Transportation
0161 912 4783
07760 167072

I disagree, I think the knock-on effects can be positive. Speed enforcement doesn't just address the (5% of total) crashes with "Exceeding the speed limit" as a causal factor, it also has the potential to reduce any crashes containing any of the following causal factors:

* Inappropriate speed for conditions
* Loss of control
* Failed to judge another's speed
* Aggressive driving
* Reckless behaviour

Obviously we'll need some years of data before any conclusions can be drawn.

* Inappropriate speed for conditions

* Loss of control

* Failed to judge another's speed

* Aggressive driving

* Reckless behaviour

Obviously we'll need some years of data before any conclusions can be drawn.

Thats the one thing you've said that I agree with.

I'm waiting for one of you to agree that you you think Paul's excitement at suggestions for evading convictions for speeding is explained away by it being research. I note that no-one has.

Asking someone to explain themselves properly isn't ad hominem.

* Inappropriate speed for conditions

How?

* Loss of control

How do you measure loss of control with automated enforcement?

* Failed to judge another's speed

This may have very little to do with exceeding the limit.

* Aggressive driving

* Reckless behaviour

How do you measure this?

I disagree, I think the knock-on effects can be positive. Speed enforcement doesn't just address the (5% of total) crashes with "Exceeding the speed limit" as a causal factor, it also has the potential to reduce any crashes containing any of the following causal factors:

* Inappropriate speed for conditions
* Loss of control
* Failed to judge another's speed
* Aggressive driving
* Reckless behaviour

Obviously we'll need some years of data before any conclusions can be drawn.

In terms of net contributions as ratios, exceeding the speed limit accounts for 12 of 228 total contributing factors for fatals, that’s 5.3% (DfT stats 612592 table 2.)

In a nutshell, if you solve much of the other 95%, then you’ve solved much of the originally remaining 5% anyway. All that resource for such a small return…..

It is your responsibility, as defined by the Road Traffic Act, to drive at an appropriate speed within the speed limit. Clearly the statistics show that most people don't, and therefore crash.