Safe Speed Forums

As a regular cyclist of about 18 years or so, I disagree entirely with everything you say.

You can't stop for every car that comes up behind you. What you're saying would also apply to side roads. You'd never get anywhere, worried that somebody will overtake and turn across you.

Fair enough if you both get to the gap at the same time, use your noggin. But if you're there first, and some daft bint (IMO) doesn't see you and cuts you up, the cyclist has done nothing wrong, and IMO couldn't reasonably be expected to have done anything to avoid it except blocking the road - something I always do at ped crossings and pinch points.

Being 'in the right' doesn't stop you dying!

I can't believe you have actually managed to dress yourself for 18 years, let alone stay alive on the roads, if you can't grasp this simple concept. I certainly have no further interest trying to bash home the point, it's your own risks you take.

Oh give it rest you two!

I'd be hard pressed to get a cigarette paper between you, but you just can't see it.

Your both saying the same things from different reference positions.

(not a moderator message)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

WARNING: Non-PC content ahead...

http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922

I'm scared to wait too long because some *insert chosen word here* driver will get impatient.

I was once waiting at some green lights because the junction wasn't clear. A car came behind me kept bibbing, I moved out the way in the end. The car waited in the junciton for some time, enough time for an ambulance to be delayed7. Nevertheless the driver saved 2 seconds of his time.

I wonder what the real cause of congestion is.

The concept is flawed. Not all accidents are avoidable just from the actions of one person.

Nothing personal

Very interesting thread, as a life long cyclist and a person with an keen interest in my own mortality I can certainly sympathise with the cyclist in the OP. When I am driving I certainly get frustrated and angry with idiot motorists but when someone seriously endangers my well being when Im on my bike I tend to go absolutely ballistic and I make no apologies for expressing my anger. The list of stupid life threatening driving errors which I have suffered over the years would fill a book but some recent highlights include being pushed along in the kerb for several metres by the wing mirror of an old biddies Corsa, and a learner bus half overtaking me and driving me into the kerb. Virtually every single day I ride my bike there are situations where, with all the defensive riding, good roadcraft and skills imaginable some idiot, whether through incompetence, selfishness or inattention puts my life at risk. One can minimise ones exposure to the danger posed by driver error but not eliminate it.

Banging a fist on a window or on the roof of a car which has just endangered ones safety is an entirely valid form of protest. I expect that it was a surprise to him that his fist went straight through it.

Of course it isn't. It could possibly make you feel better, but is far more likely to increase danger than reduce it. The following risks apply:

- increases stress; and stressed people make worse decisions; crashes more likely
- increases divisions between road user groups; promotes animosity and less care
- might promote a physical attack
- might constitute criminal damage
- two wrongs don't make a right
- adopting a 'blame' position does not help you to stay out of similar trouble next time

Anyway, if striking a vehicle is 'a valid protest' why not carry a big hammer so you can make a better protest?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Geeze Paul, don't encourage him! He already thinks a response that is at least intimidating behavior, and quite likely some permutation of common assault, is acceptable behavior on our roads!

Gotta tell you Miguel, if a cyclist punched my vehicle in anger they would guarantee that they'd be coming off their bike, and would in all likelihood find themselves face down on the pavement, in a rather uncomfortable position, under citizen's arrest, awaiting the arrival of the plod to escort them to less than luxurious quarters. I would press criminal charges to the fullest possible extent, in addition to civil action for any damages, injury or distress.

It's worth considering this potential outcome the next time you feel entitled to lash out violently as a form of expression, take a deep breath and save yourself the bother.

All cycles should have bells, if you feel this is inadequate for venting your frustrations, why not invest in a compressed air horn, that'd be a great way to announce your presence to the oblivious, without fear of a criminal record!

If you believe this then you won't mind if I bang my fist on your helmet if you endanger my safety.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

An escalation of threats is no way to address such problems.

Instead we need to promote improved skills, responsibilities, and better understanding between road user groups.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ach Liebchen - you need to chill. Twazaks are part und parcel und you diffuse situation by applying COAST und just adjusting your driving to keep YOU und YOURS in that car SAFE!

Anger solve nothing und whilst you fume.. you ae not concentrating on road und for all you know - you could be causing someone else to comment on your daft behaviour as you could also be making silly but not necessarily dangerous mistakes.





In case of the learner bus driver.. I would have reported that to bus company or person doing the teraching per the L plates as the instructor should have been giving guidance und advice to him.

Old biddies. I once had one nearly reverse into me in car park. I tooted - but she continued .. so I tooted a little more urgently. She return into the bay und beckoned me.. und then burst into tears. I got her life story .. but I was reassuring to her that I only was telling her I was there... but she was more upset at "being a fool for not seeing me" She waas disabled .. She had walking stick. She then nearly trip me up with this stick in the supermarket later on.. und I did wonder about her observation skills overall.

But why did you not bang on the woman's window if you had got locked onto her wing mirror... which should have either folded or snapped off from the brush with you.

Several metres ist a long distance for such a push. Ist not making excuses for her.. I hope you got number und at least showed policeman your bruises from this.

Ist also why we say COAST all the time This should be the real safety reminder message to all those muppets out there - nicht ?





You can never eradicate error. Ist a human condition.. You can only respoind calmly with COAST skills per IG und page 50 of Cycle Craft.



I think he was in danger of more serious injury to himself. Ist not valid to kick a car any more than ist valid to hurl abuse at cyclist who ist pedalling along road und "holding up" You do not use road rage to vent feeling of anger. You suck in teeth, und just get on with the job of keeping yourself safe. You do not know if person whose car you just kicked just happens to be psychotic schizophrenic or person who Happy Slap you for fun of it. There was the incident whereby person was stabbed after a roadside argument. He was a serious criminal und thankfully he ist now in prison. But you do not know if person you kick out at ist that unstable type.


My cousin Jessika though.. she ist one of the teachers in family. She ist Head Teacher. (ist relevant )

She ride out on bicycle in lunch hour. She return on bicycle. She ist in cycling gear.. lycra, gloves, helmet perched on her head , hi-viz gilet even though summer day.

She see 4x4 waiting to turn right into the main road she ist on. She adopt primary as ist steepish gradient with parked cars along her side of orad und she ist going some in the 40 mph limit.

Car inching out.. but as Jess ist closing in at some wellying force.. woman hold back. It eventually turn ,. und as it passes Jess.. BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP! und little oik in back of car give her the finger und throw a can at her.

Jess know of short cut down an off-rad back track back to school und as she cycles through gates she sees illegally parked in her school grounds.. aforementioned Mama dropping off spotty oik back to class.

Jessika pull alongside und tell oik und parent that she would like to see them in her study ... und she get changed back to School Marm suit und proceeds to tick off the mama over parking in grounds without permission und the boy over his bad manners. She also made him serve a detention in which she had him do some "research" on road safety und write her essay on topic. As we like a lot of words.. she set a high word count

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

IMO thats illegible. Sorry Wildcat but I find most of your posts unreadable

[quote="RobinXe]
Geeze Paul, don't encourage him! He already thinks a response that is at least intimidating behavior, and quite likely some permutation of common assault, is acceptable behavior on our roads!

Gotta tell you Miguel, if a cyclist punched my vehicle in anger they would guarantee that they'd be coming off their bike, and would in all likelihood find themselves face down on the pavement, in a rather uncomfortable position, under citizen's arrest, awaiting the arrival of the plod to escort them to less than luxurious quarters. I would press criminal charges to the fullest possible extent, in addition to civil action for any damages, injury or distress.

It's worth considering this potential outcome the next time you feel entitled to lash out violently as a form of expression, take a deep breath and save yourself the bother.

All cycles should have bells, if you feel this is inadequate for venting your frustrations, why not invest in a compressed air horn, that'd be a great way to announce your presence to the oblivious, without fear of a criminal record![/quote]

So if I understand you correctly Robin, if I felt that my life had been put in danger by your careless, inconsiderate, incompetent or selfish driving and I banged on the roof or window to express my anger you would run me down and assault me. Oh and then you would sue me for the injury and distress I had caused you! Ha ha ha. You are a funny guy. You can of course utter such idle threats because you do so from the safety of an internet forum.

Until such time as I can go about my normal business as a cyclist or as a pedestrian without fear of injury or death from idiot motorists I shall continue to bang on car roofs, I shall continue to forcibly remove aerials and windscreen wipers and I shall continue to remove idiot motorists keys from their cars and throw them into traffic. (You will have noticed from my thread that I only do such things to idiots who threaten my health and safety. Ill write that again for your benefit. I only do such things to idiots who threaten my health and safety). With any luck you wont encounter me on the road, with any luck you wont cut me up dangerously and youll have no reason to try and get out of your vehicle whilst I am standing with my foot on your door beating your car with what is left of your windscreen wiper. Assault me? Tut tut. You could try.

Oh and banging on a car roof isnt 'violence', it might reasonably be referred to as criminal damage but it isnt 'violence'. Unless you really do think that your vehicle is an ... er...'extension' of your self.

The best way to avoid such a situation of course is to treat other road users with the respect that they deserve as fellow human beings and subjects of Her Majesty. Dont treat me like shit, I wont beat your vehicle. Simple

I find your attitude quite remarkable Miguel, particularly since you have chosen to put 'law abiding' as your location!

I would hope that you are aware, if you carried out any of the violence (yes it is violence, fetch your dictionary to learn that violence is not restricted to actions against a person) you threaten in your posts, that you would no longer be 'law abiding'! Whilst you have your dictionary out, why don't you look up 'vigilante'.

So that you correctly understand me Miguel, if you felt that your life had been put in danger by the actions of myself or anyone else, you would still have absolutely no right to touch, molest, damage or deface my vehicle in any way, shape or form. I would certainly not run you down or assault you, but I would exercise my right as a citizen to apprehend you whilst waiting for the police to arrive. You would then have the chance to give a 'he-said-she-said' account of your perceived justification for your actions before being arrested for your damage to my vehicle.

You obviously view yourself as a bit of a 'hard nut', more than capable of physically overcoming anyone who you feel has not given you the courtesy you feel you deserve on the roads. As others have pointed out, sooner or later you'll meet someone who has an even more disproportionate response than yours, and judging from past incidents you may be unlucky enough to find yourself bleeding to death in the gutter having been stabbed with a screwdriver by someone who's aerial you 'forcibly removed'. I hope that before that day comes you find yourself better equipped to deal with life's constant frustrations, and take things more in your stride, since I wouldn't wish that sort of end on anyone.

I'll write again for your benefit (sic), when you damage people's vehicles, no matter what your perceived justification, you are breaking the law.

Sorry I thought you said that I would be 'coming off my bike and would find myself face down on the pavement'. How were you hoping to acheive this?

Im certainly no 'tuf nut' but neither am I the kind of cyclist who will wave a cheery hello in response to having my safety threatened.

I am entitled to ride my cycle on the road without fear of death and injury. I am absolutely right to expect that other road users excercise their duty of care to me as a valid road user. When someone endangers me either through incompetence or stupidity they wilfully cross a line. If someone were to point a loaded gun at me or wave a broken glass in my face they would have crossed a line. Its the same fecking line.

Anyhoo, Ill happily wait around for the police to arrive. I have the courage of my convictions.

On the one occasion that the polis did turn up Id been riding along a one way street when I encountered a car coming the wrong way, I had to swerve to avoid being hit because he headed straight towards me at speed. I followed him to the end of the road, put my bike on the road in front of him and ripped off his wiper. He couldnt get out of the car because I was somewhat ' in the way'. I spent ten minutes shouting at him until the police turned up, booked him and sent me on my way with a merry 'you shouldnt really have damaged his car sir', *wink*. Nice.

One of my favourites was kicking the sh!t out of the back wheel of a bike ridden into me on the pavement by a fifty something bloke who had then loudly objected that I hadnt get out of his 'effing' way. I suspect he had to walk home as the wheel wouldnt turn in the frame.

I see you admit to taking the law into your own hands when the victim of a perceived slight. Enough said.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

From just the few things you've written it looks like you have severe anger-management problems. Frankly, I doubt, if this is your normal state, whether you're sufficiently responsible to be in charge of a pedal-car, let alone something like a bike - that can be lethal in certain circumstances.

My advice is to take a bit of counselling - before you have the misfortune to run into someone bigger, nastier and even more violent than yourself.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Yup. If having someone driving straight at me going the wrong way down a one way street can be classed as a 'slight'.

I understand that a number of fellows on this forum exceed the speed limit occasionally, that would be 'breaking the law' wouldnt it so dont come over all holier than thou.

I react as I do in response to people exposing me to mortal danger. As someone who has been hospitalised several times by car drivers and has spent months in a wheel chair as a result of being taken out by a drunk driver I feel strongly that it is entirely appropriate behaviour. Perhaps your claimed disgust at my behaviour suggests an inability to appreciate what it feels like to be threatened by a ton of steel driven by someone who cares so little for the wellbeing of vulnerable road users that they are prepared to take risks with their lives for the sake of a few seconds up the road. I suspect that you underestimate just how scary such close encounters with death are. Maybe you should try riding a bicycle for a week or two. You might start to appreciate where I am coming from.