Safe Speed Forums

But in Ru88ell-world, won't these be too?



Is that a promise?

I say, safespeed old chap, fellow road safety expert and all round fast egg, would you care to affiliate with my fledgling organisation?
We're SafeBooze(TM), aggressively campaigning for safer roads with the motto "Grog doesn't kill people, people do!"
Let's face it, inflexible overemphasis on stringent blood-alcohol figures, ignoring other factors - like how long it is since your last kebab and how seasoned a lush you are - is deadly.
These breathalyser thingies are killers, make no mistake. Time was, when out cruising on a skinful, you had a good chance of blagging your way off a charge by not puking down the front of the officer who apprehended you for driving into the front of the sweet shop.
Gentlemen, be upstanding and raise your glasses in fond remembrance of The Sporting Chance!
Now they've these infernal gadgets - no chance of wriggling out of it - so every time I spot one of the old Bill it impinges on my carefree, expert progress. My driving deteriorates. I become a bag of whisky-fumed nerves. I've been known to panic brake at the sight of a police car, and to take my eyes off the road for longer than is safe trying to get the top back on the bottle and the bottle out of sight in the glove compartment. It's dangerous, no two ways about it.
Obviously we at SafeBooze(TM) don't condone young chavs belting around in their silly little blinged-up hatches, bellies full of gassy Hooch and sickly Bacardi Breezers. But a responsible middle-aged man like me, graduate of the Institute of Advanced Drinkers, deserves to be cut some slack if he drifts a smidgen over 80mg per 100mls. I'm experienced and am best placed to determine my own blood alcohol levels for the conditions. So there.
So, let's join forces and together we can roll back the evil forces of nanny-statist, kill-joy, plodding sobriety. Here's to getting pissed and driving fast: Cheers

SafeBooze(TM) (affiliated with SafeSpeed)

This thread has gone so far since lunchtime thaty I'm not even going to try to pick it up. Instead I'm going to make two points:-
The idiot is closer than you think. He's going to run into the road, swerve, fall over sideways or change lanes in front of you; you have to allow for that. If you're the one going fast in a big metal box you have a moral responsibility not to kill idiots, don't argue if it's also a legal responsibility, and don't argue if the you don't like the way in which the law is enforced.
The other is that even "safe speed" can be unpleasant for people other than the driver, inside and outside the car.

Don't be silly.

Sheesh! Lighten up Russhell, we're all mates here. Howsh about a little drink?

SafeBooze(TM)(affiliated with SafeSpeed)

Safebooze should associate himself with Spindrift a.k.a. Safedrugs :D

Safehouse more like. Safementalhouse.

Well, I've drunk enough to last me until Boxing day. I won't be either driving or cycling home, you'll all be delighted to learn.
Ciao4now.
Keep safe:- Keep legal.

It is impossible (by definition) to predict the unpredictable. We can and should drive at an appropriate speed (may be less than the speed limit) if we are driving in a hazard rich environment (e.g a shopping area with many pedestrains). The same road a few hours later, shops closed, no parked cars, no pedestrians in sight, may be good for 40mph. World of difference. 20mph is possibly 'dangerous' in the first case but double that speed may be safe in the second case. You can't legislate for that variation (although the speed limit is a useful guide) - drivers have to recognise it for themselves. A good driver in case 1 will be observing pedestrians, weighing up their movements and body language (obviously can't do this if there are many pedestrians but you get the idea) and taking appropriate action - e.g. easing off the accelerator here, covering the brake there, making a bit more room etc.

Drivers have to be educated/trained to discriminate between the two situations and learn appropriate responses - it's not instinctive. These types of judgements (different hazards but similar application of risk assessment) apply to all sorts of hazard environments, not just busy shopping areas, and are the real hallmarks of advanced drivers and the essence of safe driving on public roads. They could, to some extent, be inculcated by public road safety messages. What we get instead from road safety policy is obsessive focus on speed limit compliance. It's a superficially attractive (at first blush) but misguided strategy. It's dumbing down the process of safe driving. It's therefore no surprise (as we see in any other field of expertise which has been similarly treated) that drivers, on average, are becoming dumber - dumber and dumberer.

What we really need to do is identify what gave us the safest roads in the world and build on that. It's impossible to claim that automated speed enforcement did that. It was something else.

That's enough for now.

Shurely shome mishtake?

SafeBooze(TM)(affiliated with Safespeed)

No - a bit of 'cultural' plagiarism.

Goodness - I had no idea about Lizard.

A double to you then Lizard. We are not at all what some rather silly people think. I hope you continue to post up here and I look forward to talking cycling and stuff with you as do all of us on here.

Apart from that.. I think MM posted somewhere or other . that Paul is in the news and not that many people are interested in cycling sport and view the mags as "sport". Thus only those with an interest in cycling as the SPORT event will read these mags. Let's face it .. they have more articles on "race/training/food/exercise tips for training/reviews on the races/cyclo cross/sportives .. and the latest on racy roadies " than on "best commuting route to take and how to stay safe out there".

Yeah.. Autocar et - along the same lines. I would say "Top Gear" has the inveitable intrepid trio's take on life as well as some gem reviews.. and I confess that [i] that review of the car relating to its girly aspects" .. Only Jezza could say it and get away with it

"AutoExpress" though .. nice mix of family, rant, sporty car review, mechanics.

But by and large - they attract blokes and wimmin like Krissi and Wildy who are a bit "odd" that way

But .. Autocar and Auto Express do get the occasional referral in the national press regarding their reader opinion polls. I hardly ever see any mention of C+ or even CW in the national press. I do think people see them as "to do with sport" and you usually find them in the sports' sections - battling with Football, Sailing, Fishing, etc. Whereas the Motor mags have their own little niche




No slight on the mags. I buy CW each week and C+ every quarter I enjoy 'em and will be doing my usual review fo the best of the rags and the readers' letters some time Have C+ Januuary edition and CW this week ... currently reading through them and both have plenty of interest for ALL who ride and drive and motor bike .. and even walk as you could use some of the scenic rides as a walking/orientieering/rambling base.


Just because some fools are drawn to rant about nothing remotely to do with cycling in an internet chatroom - does not and should not mean that the magazine which bears it name is of the same rabid nonense. Far from it.

Fine magazine.. great photography Even has mine and the Mad Doc's fave loop reviewed in the mag. (Baugh Fell and the Howgills) Done this one many a time with Ted and another pal of ours.

I will expand on these mags as and when I have time over the hols. Hopefully, I will yet inspire Paul and Gatsomate to get "pedalling back the years" per one C+ article


CW responds nicely with killer climbs and "getting clawed by cats" in Calais!

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Speed limits, like all safety limits, are set for the worst-case scenario.
Basing them on an average risk would be invalid; and variable speed limits are confusing. Thats why you find yourself driving past a school at 20mph on a Sunday, or keeping to 30 when the roads are completely deserted at 3am in the morning.
The law cannot accomodate all the nuances of human existance; and the mechanisms for enforcing the law are capable of even less discrimination.
It makes more sense for us to obey an inflexible law than to demand that the law varies to cope with every possible circumstance.

Sincere and warm Mr Paul as well then!

How about chatting bikes with me in Cycling. It's a bit like "Hotel California" in there


Me and Ted seem to chat to each other there. It's surreal! We do that on the phone anyways!

C'mon - we want more killer climbs as we done all the ones around 'ere!

What's your fave ride? Of all time? I think mine now has to be the part of our epic around Schruns in the Vorarlberg It just winds ..up and down. The scenery.. my God! Hard to say which took my breath away.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

C'mon Jub Jub. You know what has been posted by certain rabid individuals. You seriously expect anyone to believe they ride the Tourmalet and Col de L'izoarde when they post 24/7 without any break in various intenet chatrooms?

It takes one heck of a work out as a constant input. I try to get at least one to two hours riding per day to keep up my stamina for our next "epic"


. As for "being productive at work as a result of an invigorating commute" - I have to wonder what kind of employer allows constant posting to C+ and acf , sheffield and other fora per the links which crop up from time to time on here.

I'd love to have a job in which I can chat all day on line.. I enjoy fair and pleasant discussions after all. Here I will post some advice - COAST - safety led and have a couple in which I shared my Hendon car training and Durham based cycling training - so's people know what really goes into it. I also try to show that police are and can be very understanding and helpful and that we punish as a last resort as and when we can.. and will apply that same - cough - discretion to all members of the public. Respect after all begets respect ...

We don't do "nasty" We are gents.. and in the case of Wildy - she's "house trained"

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

No they're not mate, sorry. Most existing speed limits are set at the 85th percentile. This has nothing to do with worst case scenario.

And I'd also suggest you're wrong on your point about the lack of discrimination its possible to use when enforcing the law here. You will very very rarely see a police car pull over anybody doing less than 85mph, unless the conditions are appauling, or the 85mph vehicle hasn't noticed the jam sandwich thats been following him/her for the last mile or two.

I really do suggest you watch the BBC's programme, Traffic Cops. If you haven't seen it, and if you know what a torrent file is, then I can forward some episodes to you. Its quite an eye-opener as to just how flexible the police can be (although there are some who find the police's methods questionable on occasion).

Finally I understand what you're saying about which laws we choose to obey and generally I would agree, but laws are not inflexible - which is why we have a judiciary. Only when politicians intefere (3 strikes rule) do laws become inflexible, and justice goes out of the window.

Patently not the case is it. It's frequently necessary, for safety, to drive at a speed lower than the posted limit.



I really don't follow your point. Speed limits are simply an indication of likely hazard density. I agree that variable speed limits are confusing. Similarly frequent changes of limit in a relatively short distance (which is becoming more common).



The law is the law? If you consider the history of speed limits, it's really rather obvious that they were intended for guidance and to provide the police with a convenient tool for prosecuting unsafe behaviour. It couldn't have been any other way because the present day means to detect speeding and prosecute offences did not exist. If the means of detection and enforcement did not exist (and could not have been imagined), it cannot have been intended that speed limits should be strictly observed and enforced.

It's also obvious, applying just a little critical reasoning, that safe driving is nearly all about driver qualities (psychology) and very little to do with speed limit compliance (but a lot to do with selection of appropriate speed). Appropriate speed selection is an output of safe driving behaviour not an input to it. If safe driving (as it must be) is founded on driver quality, it must follow that the most effective way of improving road safety lies in improving average driver quality.

Current road safety policy is having the opposite effect. As I said above, the focus on speed limit compliance is dumbing down the driving process. The received message (whether intended or not) is that compliance is a driver's chief responsibility to road safety. Not surprising, then, that drivers are, on average, becoming worse.

SafeBooze has stringent membership criteria, Mr Gear, and you don't meet them. And just what sort of name is 'In'? Burmese?
Look, you clearly can't handle your beer, and are a teeth-grinding embarrassment to the SafeBooze/SafeSpeed project. Kindly leave our website and don't ever post here again. You're barred pal. And take your pissy kittens with you.

This thread was good until the icons .Too many icons!

I have a question .Why do they need speed humps in a 20 limit aarea ?the ones that reet slipped on ?

Eh?

1. I do not post to any other site other than this and a "for police only site" where I gossip with vonhosen and his mates

2. I discuss cars and bicycles - along with SAFE practices on here. Along with extracts from the Road Traffic Acts, police handbooks (which can be verified incidentally)

3. I will not waste my leisure time chatting with you as it seems very evident from the nature of your post that you do not have the brain to engage in any lucid conversation in any case.

4. As for "safebooze" - ....


I suggest you seek help with the AA and | do not mean the "fourth emergency service" Or if you prefer - you can scroll or even troll through my posts in the archives and find a link to a site which we have on most police and road safety partnership sites whcih will lead to sites which can halp you

a) control your drinking and drugging habits

b) help you manage your apparent road or cycling rage

c) there is a nother site which you could look up - Dianetrics. This will help you confront whatever stress in your life which is causing you such unproductive and negative stress.


By the way - who is being a troll?


I never posted to the site under discussion nor have Ted and Wildy Kriss posted for one month only in January 2005 and Andreas for two months in April-May 2005 - along with his two pals and we now find their admin teams got in the act ... as none of them actually logged out in-between times... They late 'fessed up to me and Ted that it "whiled away many a boring bit in the day!"

As for their posts - none were abusive nor sought to be deliberately abusive. A "troll" per the definition is someone who registers to a site and deliberately posts up unwarranted and unjustified abuse.

I think you should look at the tone and language in your post. on that basis.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.