Safe Speed Forums

It seems a topical time to have this discussion, or at least it does to me since I was out in it last night, and out in it again this evening for about 3 hours each time.


Of course, I'm no expert, but I've come up with the following observations. They are probably all wrong so please correct me.

Motorways:

- Ok we actually need rear fog lights right now. But once you have someone who is following you from a reasonable distance, you might want to consider switching it off until they go away again. (not sure on this one, but I appreciated it when people did it for me)

- Front foglights are still useless.

- Driving too slowly may be as dangerous as driving too fast. Since none of the HGVs seem to give a crap about the fog (sorry Conor, Scanny etc. but I didn't encounter a single HGV that wasn't on the limiter) you may want to go a bit faster so that other vehicles have a bit more time to react

- BMWs etc. will still do 90mph and tailgate you. I guess front foglights are useful as it gives you a clue that these people are coming.

- The middle lane is slower than the left hand lane, and will probably contain someone doing 20 with no foglights and really crappy sidelights.

Single carriageways:

- If your visibility stops at the end of your headlights, then be prepared for a sudden drop in visible distance if the road is bumpy

- Your memory of the twists and turns on your favourite local road is not as good as you think it is. Always be able to stop in the distance you know to be clear

- Front foglights are still useless, unless your aim is to blind people coming the opposite way. Some bugger will do this to you.

- Streetlights mean you are approaching an area with even less visibility, due to light reflecting from the fog

- Encountered one of those annoying floodlights that they have a certain roadworks. May as well strap a white stick to the front of your car.

- Generally speaking, towns are warmer than fields, and the fog will lift. If this is the case then switch that damn foglight off once you're far enough away from the edge of the fog


What are your recommendations for driving when it's like this then, apart from the obvious: Dont!

My enduring memory of fog on the motorway was suddenly being confronted by a HGV looming out of the gloom completely sideways across all 3 lanes (and a bit). When your rear end is facing the opposite carriageway foglights are completely useless. Luckily I was driving at a speed whereby I could stop in the distance I could see to be clear, but only just.

Several hundred vehicles were involved that day and it was 3 or 4 hours before we got moving again (leaving via the onramp).

So my advice is, if it is really foggy enough to need foglamps on the motorway then find a different route, or stay home.

Interesting. Though last night's experience seemed to me that the smaller roads had denser fog than the motorways.

You have a bloody unlucky one there, but in general I would have thought that a motorway would provide more escape routes in the event of the unexpected.


Of course, if it's a congested daytime drive, then things may be different? Fortunately I haven't had to do one of those yet.

I'm still not sure that I have ever come across a situation where intense rear fog lamps are useful.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I H8 fog!
Second what has already been said (I avoid motorways in heavy rain too! Everybodys driving seems worse in bad weather than in good *and* there seems to be more traffic!)

Would like to add, You see Ghosts in fog!

The swirling mist generates phantoms! You can emergency stop for a drifting shadow and completly fail to see a pedestrian/cyclist!

Its a bit like the early aviators expression "Clouds stuffed with rocks!"

Also it is "Difficult" being the front of a queue on a road! *I* can only see 25 yards ahead so am traveling at X<30, everybody else is driving on my rear lights and so feels comfortable and wonders why I am going so slowly!

Dusty

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I agree. And there are several countries that still ban their use so the benefits are not universaly agreed.

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Speed camera policy Kills

PS
the reason why hgv's are all on the govner despite the poor conditions is because they have tachos, they cannot afford to slow down since this will mean the drivers will run out of time and find themselves stranded in the middle of nowhere!

Another example of the law of unintended consequences!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I've been using mine the last couple of days when I can't see anything behind, but they go off as soon as something appears.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I disagree, in heavy fog, like we are experiencing at the moment, Fog lights are very useful. But...... and its a big one, only during the day time. At night rear fog lights are a PITA during the day they are useful and don't blind the driver behind.

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

Shhh! The EU might read this thread and decide that it would be a good idea to require the use of both front and rear fog lights at all times, in the interests of road safety.

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Brian

I'm in a courtesy car today, as my car is in to have it's electrics checked over for whatever is leaching charge from the battery overnight. The courtesy car is a VW polio, and in that car it is not possible to have the rear fogs on without first turning on the fron fogs (you pull the light switch out for fogs, one click - fronts, two clicks - fronts and rear).

Incidentally, front fogs don't show up on the dashboard whereas rear fogs do.

IMHO front (and rear?) fog lights should have a warning light with the words "switch off when it's no longer foggy" across them.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

I think front fogs should be fitted with a time-switch, permanently set at zero!

"THE FOG" aint all bad, it's too thick to fly, so it's effectively got me the last week before Christmas off work

One of the big problems with foglights is that when the fog is patchy the vis can go from nothing to 100m plus and back again in short order. I agree with Patch that during the day I would rather everyone drove around with them on, than switched them off in a 'good' section, and left them off for a bad section. LOL, the fog is PATCHy

Poor visibility causes the human eye/brain to overestimate distance (due to the distance judging mechanisms of detail and colour being tricked), as well as obviously reducing visual range. Because of this judging a safe distance, even if you can see far enough, becomes much more difficult; indeed, at motorway speeds in some of this fog I would say impossible, since you can't judge the gap if you have to hang so far back that the car ahead vanishes! This is coupled with the fact that the roads are damp at best, icy at worst! The only way to overcome this is to drive slower, obviously within your headlights if the road ahead is clear, but moreso in traffic. I'm sure we have all expeienced the 'looming' out of the for effect this manifests as.

Whatever their mitigation, I don't see any reason that lorries should be pressing on at full tilt in this, and I would not be surprised to see the proportion of accidents involving lorries spike during foggy periods if this is the case. Perhaps we should place a network of 'Fog Cameras' around the country to catch trucks

Front foglights must rank amongst one of the most useless accessories the motor industry has ever foisted on it's customers. They appear to be used in the main by the poseur who thinks it looks cool to drive with parking lights and front fogs.

To my mind, they are as much use as a rear aerofoil on a Ford Mondeo.

Having said that, they are mostly harmless - nowhere near as misleading or annoying as inappropriate rear foglights.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

I've been thinking about this a lot during the current pea-souper. As front fogs are only useful in REALLY thick fog, perhaps the sequence on dual switches like this should be reversed, i.e. the rear comes on first. This would (?) stop the foglight numpties driving around with them on.

I'm not enjoying my commute in this weather. At one point I use a narrow country lane with wide verges. It's really hard to pick out the road ahead without hedges as a guide!

Oh, and I had a great foglight numpty the other day. He waited until I caught him up, THEN turned his foglamp on. So I turned main beam on.....

I have been driving around in the fog and mist. What amazes me is there are people with out any lights on. Why does it always seem to be silver/grey cars with out their lights on?

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

That's EXACTLY what me and Nos were talking about last night! You notice they're always the last to turn on their lights at dusk too?



No. If you're leading a line of traffic you need (potentially) fronts, but not rears.

I'm the same as you though, driving through the village where I work in this fog is a nightmare. I'm seriously thinking of fitting a pair of fronts over xmas.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Or link the fog light to the engine management and make it so that you can't exceed 30mph with front fog lights on. If the fog is thick enough to need front fog lights 30 is probably fast enough.

Or maybe all cars should have the BMW fog radar fitted (at least I assume that's how the t!"£$r who passed me on Tuesday night knew what was in front of him)

The Germans do seem to like doing this (both my Passat and Mk2 Golf have it), and it would explain the front fogs on BMWs thing too.

There is a solution though. It appeared to annoy the previous owner of my golf so much that he's cut the wires leading to the front fogs! A less drastic approach would be to remove the bulbs.

I plan to obtain two foglight switches from the version of the Mk2 that didn't have front fogs, and install separate wiring to front and rear. There is no sensible way to have front and rear fogs on the main switch.

For example, the Civic courtesy car has a twiddly thing on the left stalk for fogs. Starting from the top it is marked Rear, Off, Front, Rear. So from the off position, if you turn it towards you, the rear fogs come on, then it returns to the off position (ie. toggle, not latch) if you turn it away from you, the fronts come on and the thing actually latches, you then need to turn it away from you again to get the rears to come on, and again this is a toggle not a latch.

So depending on the state of your front fogs, the action needed to get the rears to come on is reversed. Get it wrong and you'll switch your front fogs off too.

Annoying, but then this is the car that makes it incredibly easy to switch the lights off completely when you are attempting to switch full beams on.

Two switches, is it really that hard? Please car manufacturers, stop trying to be clever about lighting switches, you only make things worse *cough*vauxhall indicators*cough*

The new Ford Fiesta has the two stage pull switch for fogs too, so you have to have both to get rear.

As far as removing bulbs goes, is it not law that any fitted lamps must be serviceable?